• Announcements

    • khawk

      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Spyder

Trolls, orcs, goblins and $$

28 posts in this topic

Someone mentioned trolls can''t carry money, it''s unrealistic. But they sure can!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But spiders, rats, bats and snakes sure can''t. Or maybe they could carry a coin or a small pouch in their mouth.

-Jussi
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some animals collect small items of jewelery, stones or gold coins. It''s not unrealistic to kill a raven, and find a small gold coin in it''s nest? Other than that i agree with you.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, but is it realistic to find 30 gold coins from the body of a spider or rat (as in eg. ADOM and Ultima 9)?

-Jussi
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
??? why is this point even being raised?
how real should a game be, so real that players kill trolls at night, then have to get at least 3 hours sleep. Then wake up at the crack of dawn, go to the bakery and bake break, then after working for 4 days finally get paid 10 gold. That doesn't sound like fun does it? Well it's not and neither is running around chopping up evil monsters and animals only get to get a handful of blood and guts and no gold.
The question shouldn't be "how real should this game be?"
the question should be "will this game be fun to play?"




Edited by - Devon on August 23, 2000 8:45:10 AM
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HAHAHA devon the way you put it, makes the whole rpg must be realistic frenzy really seem as sad it is.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just because a game is realistic, it does not mean it is boring. In a medieval game, if your current goal is to make a little cash. Do not go out hunting wild animals because you will not find it. If you encounter a wild animal, avoid it.

Later,
Eck
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Devon

??? why is this point even being raised?



One word. Immersion. There''s a gamasutra article by Ernest Adams that talks about internal consistency, and it hits the nail right on the head. (He also wrote a great "letter from a dungeon" that''s along this line as well.)

Any time you''re playing a game and you''re reminded that it''s a game, you''re pulled out of the game. This doesn''t mean that the "kill things and voila! money pops out of them" mechanism shouldn''t be used, it should just be used more cleverly.

For instance, I''ve heard others on this board suggest bounties for wolf hides and such. Much better than killing a wolf and suddenly finding 150 gold pieces plus some plate mail. I mean, wtf?!?! It''s designer laziness, really...

I also think the younger your audience, or the less "into" the game world they are, the more you can pop money out of carcasses all day long. These people don''t care about the depth of the game world, and I''d wager that in this case they wouldn''t care about detailed characters, great plot, or abilities other than combat. Not a problem, really, just an observation...


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But don''t we get gold, armor and weapons from monster poop?

Whenever I go into an RPG, there are always lots of spare weapons and gold around, usually with a bunch of monsters hanging around. I never see anyone mining or smelting ore, so it''s not being dug out of the ground by normal NPCs.

There''s never any other adventurers going through the dungeons, so the stuff has to come from the monsters. Most monsters don''t use weapons or gold. There are plenty that can''t use the stuff lying around. They obviously aren''t carrying it externally since you would see that a spider is dragging around plate mail. It only appears when the beastie gets splattered, which implies some sort of internal storage.

All of which leads me to think that the stuff is a biological byproduct of the monsters, the way spice is a biological byproduct of the worms in Dune.

It''s monster poop!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

But don''t we get gold, armor and weapons from monster poop?




LOL!!! Yes, refined monster poop!

As others have noted, it would be so much more enjoyable if this stuff looked like it belonged there... it''s not a realism fetish, it''s a consistency issue...


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The idea of having money drop from corpses is about having a reward system. You are rewarded for your efforts, just like you in some questionaire talkshows are rewarded furry pets and crap. It''s about BEHAVIORISM something you americans know about from your school system. Do something good, encourage it, do something bad smack down on it.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And do you mean to tell me that that is the best we can do? Hit a spider nine times and gold coins come flying out of his arse!?!?

There are better solutions, with the same lovely BEHAVIORISM, that are also more immersive.

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How about starting the game with a powerful character that eats a lot and has to go around killing everything to get his feed. -Character maintainance-

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Or what about a character with leprosy, who must find glue to fix his/her dropping limbs?

-Jussi
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What bothers me is that often times monsters are carrying around these powerful weapons, yet they don''t use them. If some orc has a powerful sword, why *wouldn''t* they use it?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Wavinator

And do you mean to tell me that that is the best we can do? Hit a spider nine times and gold coins come flying out of his arse!?!?


Heh, sounds more fun than, but very similar to, a lot of those fruit machines people play... they''re pretty popular too

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For those of you that really get upset about having gold flying out of a rats rear, have you tried everquest? You wont'' find much gold on animals, but you will find fur, eggs, claws and other natural stuff to exchange for your precious gold.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually, one thing that has always bothered me about everquest is how you''re actually able to sell those items. I really doubt anyone would want a spider''s leg .
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually, spiders legs go along with the eye of newt, hair of tortoise (or whatever) motif in witch and warlock spells. So you could make an economy of magic based on these things.

But I agree that in any other setting they''d be in and of themselves worthless unless they were attached to some bounty system (inwhich the game government is paying folks to get rid of a nuisance).


... errr, unless they''re some weird yuppie collector item, as well... "Giant Red Spider Leg, original, North Mountains, 50,000 gp..."

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think it would be time for a game where you are rewarded for not killing (unless you are hungry, and then eating should be a good reward).
Moreover is money the only way of rewarding the player ? Granted in some games you get stuff, but then you can only sell it most of the time.
I think rewards should be in the emotional field rather than in the economic field.
Money is only needed for the survival of the player, so give him just enough that he dont feels hungry and can buy a little stuff.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I totally agree with DungeonMaster here. Money is only in the game to allow the player to interact. It''s shouldn''t be relied upon for rewards. I find mayself that the best rewards or well thought out locations in the games or an enemy that has some character.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You know, I''m really interested in this. It seems money is a perfect, if somewhat unsatisfying reward, because it''s so easy to fit into an economic model of advancement (similar to XP). If you don''t use money, how do you create a leveling up economy?

I can see setting hidden values that give you access to new areas or badguys. But the way the economy works in the more hack&slash oriented RPGs, you advance by doing something in an incremental fashion (even if it is goblin genocide).

Could you make access to new areas or badguys scalable in this same fashion? Maybe I''m imagination challenged this morn, but I don''t see how...

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Example: Quest is to clear out the dwarven mine. Player goes in and kills a lot of giant spiders, no gold poop. After the spiders are dead, the locals can start minimg again. Better equipment becomes available shortly thereafter due to increased supply of iron ore. Prices of previous low-quality items goes down as they are replaced in the shops by high-quality items.

Hero also gets a small bounty from the local merchants. Oh, and at the bottom of the mine the hero finds evidence that the spider eggs were planted there in the first place by rival kingdom X. Hero now has a new quest to find who planted the spider eggs.

Other possibilities - the hero builds up a reputation stat. With a higher reputation, NPCs seek the hero''s help for tougher situations.

This makes more sense to me than shopkeepers that have an endless supply of gold, but still try and charge the hero an arm and a leg even after the hero has saved their butts.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites