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# Where to start?

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I want to start programming in Linux. I want to create non-graphical programs, I want to know where to start learning, I am not a complete linux-newbie but I don''t know much about it.My biggest achievement was compiling apache+openssl+php, it took me long enough... I don''t know anything about making (constructing) Makefiles or anything related to creating programs in Linux (except C/C++ syntax) and I''m looking for information on anything in Linux development including Makefiles, install-scripts and information on libraries (i.e. file-permission file io, user/password, networking, etc.) I prefer free(internet) information (I''m in a perpetual financial crisis) but if I must I will buy books, so I''m looking for sites/books for beginning Linux programmers (I already know C/C++) Gyzmo ======================= [signature][/signature]

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Programming non-graphical programs for Linux is a lot like programming for DOS, but you've got more power If you've got Linux installed, there are lots of HOWTO's in some directory (/usr/doc/ or something, I don't remember). I think there's a C/C++ programming doc, you should check it out. If you don't have Linux installed (yet), check out Linuxdoc.org, you can find lots of HOWTO's there. You might want to check out linuxprogramming.com too

Man pages are also good places to go looking for info.

Edited by - Muzzafarath on August 31, 2000 3:15:23 AM

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I do have Linux installed, as my gateway, I have a small network of 5 computers (2 Windows98 Pc''s, 2 Windows98 Laptop''s and a Linux Server) I want to learn Linux programming mostly because I can never host any game (unless I get lucky and know which ports to forward) so for any network game I make I at least want to make a linux-server. So people like me (read people connected to Internet through a Linux gateway) can still host games.

Gyzmo
=======================
[signature][/signature]

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Well, you wouldn''t want to run a game server under Windows anyway ;-)

If you are looking for general get-started docs/tutorials/howtos I''m afraid I can''t help you really much... I learned by trial-and-error, and by looking at other people''s source code (especially in the case of Makefiles).

For network programming, I suggest you get the one and only book, "Unix Network Programming" by Stevens. It''s simply great I''m currently wiriting a small strategy-game server in linux, with a MySQL db holding all data. I''ll try to answer any socket-related questions you might have

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Beginning Linux Programming, by Richard Stones and Neil Matthew (Wrox Press) is a great intro. It is very broad and covers a lot of ground (shell scripts, gcc, makefiles, perl and more). It will get you up and running in no time.

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Funny, I did some research (reading reviews on amazon) and I bought it this morning....

Gyzmo
=======================
[signature][/signature]

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On my new computer I have like 20 Megs free (3 of those are used already) and since I didn''t do a partition on my HD in the beginning before I started collecting all the crap I have now on my comp, I was wondering if there way to have both Windows and Linux( or Unix) on the same HD with no partitioning of the HD. Is that possible? Is it a good idea though?

Apology for posting my questions here but since you were talking about Linux...

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That's just my 200 bucks' worth!

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One solution is to defrag your HD and put all data in the beginning of the partition, then use some tool like Partition Magic the resize the partition and create a new one for linux.

Another is to use VMWare and run linux in a diskfile virtual partition. But personally, I think that sucks

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try ZipSlack (www.slackware.com), its a complete linux distribution that can run from an existing partition, including fat32.It works pretty good, but you''ll have to download xfree86 and nutscrape (netscape...feeling a little funny tonight), cause its not included in the package.

Have fun...

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Gladiator, it can be done. Many distros can be installed onto existing FAT32 partitions (Red Hat, Dragonlinux, someone mentioned ZipSlack), but it'll be slower than if you would dedicate two partitions for Linux. The dists (who install themselves on a FAT32 partition) usually put themselves as two (or one) file(s) in c:\ and you can simply delete those files to get rid of Linux. You'll have to boot with a boot floppy (or maybe loadlin works...?) to start Linux though.

quote:

Is it a good idea though?

No it isn't It's great if you want to simply try out Linux to see if it's any good, but if want to actually _use_ Linux you'd want to install it on its own partition.

Edited by - Muzzafarath on September 1, 2000 3:23:48 AM

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To answer your question, yes it''s possible but you will need a minimum of 500Mb free. You can download winLinux 2000. Your linux will run in a windows environment but hey, if you can''t spare to make a partition, it''s better than not having it. Anyhow, VMWare is good but you need at least 128Mb of ram in order for it to run correctly... Anyhow, I have Win Linux 2000 installed on my system an it runs fine.

C-y''a

Cyberdrek
DLC Multimedia

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That''s what I thought. I knew it was better to have 2 partitions for each system so file don''t get mixed up and stuff, but I just had to ask that anyways. My next question is: Is there a way to partition a hard drive without destroying any of the information on the drive or is it not possible?

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That's just my 200 bucks' worth!

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I believe it''s possible. Quoting myself from above:

"defrag your HD and put all data in the beginning of the partition, then use some tool like Partition Magic the resize the partition and create a new one for linux"

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How would I put all the data at the beginning of the partition?! Is there a tool to do that?

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That's just my 200 bucks' worth!

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Defrag your HD so that your data is moved to the front *grins*

Personally, I don''t like the idea of installing linux on a fat partition. FAT sucks. Besides, ext2 is more secure and designed to avoid fragmentation(it still exists, but it''s not an issue even in a very overused filesystem with not much disk space available).

If you want to be serious about linux programming, I''d suggest learning how to properly admin a linux machine.

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It''s pretty simple Gladiator. You can start the defrag program from the DOS prompt (simply open up a DOS prompt and type in defrag). It should also be in your start-menu (if you haven''t deleted it that is).

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Okay, could someone who knows what he is doing guide me through all the steps needed for downloading to installing linux? (or unix, which is better? I know unix is more difficult to use but which one is more stable and better to use as a programmer?). Well, whoever thinks he could do that as a favor, please e-mail me at welcomehowcome@hotmail.com. thanks!

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That's just my 200 bucks' worth!

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Well Gladiator, I won''t e-mail you directly at this time because I think some of the stuff I''m gonna write can help not only you but other people as well.

You -CAN- download linux, if you have a fast connection and a lot of pacience. Otherwise I would suggest buying a CD with some distribution (come on... in my country there are even magazines containing some sort of linux distribution, and they cost about R$10,00 - about$ 6,00). I''m currently using Redhat, but I want to give Corel''s a try(and SuSe, if I can get my hands on it).

Linux IS a unix, as is Solaris, FreeBSD, Aix etc. The main advantages of Linux for PC''s in my opinion lies in it''s hardware support, and because it''s free. Linux is as easy/difficult (depends on your knowledge and point of view) as other unix flavours. And it''s damn stable. DAMN.

Let''s sumarize the steps to get linux up and running in you machine:

1- Decide which distribution to use
3- This one needs some explanation. I didn''t make my linux filesystem use the damn old fashioned and inneficient FAT. So do not make me any comments about installing linux on a FAT partition... I won''t hear you lalala...

Ok... get some space to put you ext2 partition. There are some ways to do this.
First, if you have some unpartitioned space, great, use it(butwhy the heck have you been wasting space all this time?).
If not, then you should make some. The legend say you cannot change the partition table without reformatting. It''s true. So if you have nothing to lose, whack your current partitions and create them again, this time leave some space to put you new ext2 partition.
But if you''re like most people, you will not want to lose your partition. So you can use some programs to do the "magic" of resizing you current partition to make room for the new one. This is where the defrag beast (for god sake, if you have NU, use SpeedDisk) comes to play. You will use it to put the data to the front of the partition, so there''s free space at the end of the partition. Tell the magic program (fips, partition resizer or partition magic) to resize the partition. Tell the size you want. But fist, backup!!!! I cannot stress how important is to backyp you data. I''ve done it myself without backups, but that''s because I''m cool and can fix the problems myself

4- Ok. Now that you have the free space, run the install. Everything from now on will be different from distro to distro At some point it will ask to create the partition, install Lilo and etc. If you are installing any distro besides Redhat, good luck, I have no experience with them (well, there''s debian, but it was a long time ago).

Well... I hope you can figure out for yourself, if not send me a mail and I''ll try to help.

As complicated it may seem, rest assured I found it to be easier than to install windows (something I''ve done hundreds of times with many different computers).

Gaiomard Dragon
-===(UDIC)===-

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http://www.linuxnewbie.org/

is a great resource for linix stuff including a message board for programming

"People spend too much time thinking about the past, whatever else it is, its gone"-Mel Gibson, Man Without A Face

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One little factual error i''d like to clear up:

Linux is Not UNIX. Kinda like GNU''s Not UNIX. Linux is a UNIX clone. It''s a very good clone, however. So good, in fact, that it plays about as well with UNIXen as the different UNIXen play with each other. It is not fully POSIX compliant (alas and alak), but it''s pretty damn close, which makes porting very easy.

The reason it is not a UNIX, like Solaris, HPUX, AIX, or OpenBSD, is that all the others were actually decended from the original source code of UNIX written by AT&T. They all share this original code, which is what makes them UNIX. Linux, however, was a workalike, like Minix, only done right.

Anyway, just wanted to set that straight.

-benc

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try SVGAlib... the fatest libray ever created.... leaves opengl as bullshit
svgalib access video ram directly, so u need root permissions (or setuid) to run it

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"try SVGAlib... the fatest libray ever created.... leaves opengl as bullshit"

And if you want to do some serious 3D stuff? Oops, I guess svgalib goes down the drain instead...

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I think Minux was an educational OS, designed for learning OS programming, not designed to compete with any industries on any level.

"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away" --Henry David Thoreau

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Minux? Isn''t it Minix?

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Oops, you''re right, it''s "Minix."

"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away" --Henry David Thoreau