# An ideal IDE?

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anonyman    122
I am looking for a sort of tricky thing. It's a kind of "between" thing that I am not sure exists, but I hope it does. Allow me to explain my situation, and I will see if anyone can help me :) First off I have a realistic view of software development, and I consider myself a huge beginner still. I am aware of what goes into a game, and my development goals for the near future are more akin to "Tetris" and "Breakout" than that really amazing MMORPGFPSRTSRPG that all the other newbies seem so keen on making. I also am not a stranger to C++, although I am kind of sick of messing with it for now, but I am in the process of learning it. Here is where I stand. I had been using BlitzBasic to make executable 2D DirectX games, and as silly as it sounds Blitz was good practice for game design, timing, etc. However, I am a little weary of BlitzBasic's limitations and low speed. The two enviornments I am leaning towards so far are Haaf's and Clean Game Library. However, at the risk of sounding dumb, something about using Haafs still eludes me, but only slightly. However, I need a bit more freedom to actually make game code concepts, while not being bogged down by a gush of exceptions and specific circumstances. Clean Game Library seems very interesting, however all the Clean language tutorials are over my head. From what I have gleaned however, I do like Clean a bit, and would be more than happy to be pointed to a more newbie oriented Clean tutorial. What I am looking for is something that is essentially between BlitzBasic and Haaf's. I don't want to deal with all complexities and special circumstances of Haaf's, or go back to the kiddie pool of BlitzBasic. Something that was a lot like Clean but in a language with better tutorials, or a good Clean tutorial would be nice. I am trying desperately not to make this another "I am a newbie so do all the work for me" thread. That is not how it's intended. I am also not looking for "Game Maker Mind Reading Do What I Mean Genie 1.02". I actually WANT to write all the code for the timing and game logic and so forth. Here is what I need: -2D (Haaf's 2D rendered via 3D or similar is acceptable also) -Control over game loop and rules(No pre-made tile engines, no glorified RPGmaker) -Compiles to reasonably fast EXE(Not Pygame or Blitzbasic) -It's own IDE(This may seem like a newbish request. I realize that's asking a lot, but for me right now I think that would be best.) -C++, C++ esque or other non-Basic code style Here is what I really don't want: -3D -Multiplatform(Windows only is fine, makes it easier) I appreciate your taking the time to read through this post, and hope that someone knows of something that might be suited for me. I also realize that "just use SDL" may seem really trivial to most of you. If it makes me seem less argumentative, you are realistically probably right, but I am just not quite there yet. Something in between would really help me get in practice without retreating back to Blitz, which is something I want to avoid.

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Drakkcon    612
Try python. It's not an IDE, but it IS an easy to use scripting language which SDL bindings, allowing you to code 2D graphics with this much easier language. If you want to use a particular engine with only bindings in C++, you're going to have to bite the bullet though.

EDIT: If you're interested in the Python idea, learn python, then download the PyGame libraries.

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anonyman    122
Python is kind of fun to mess around with(I have Pygame installed right now actually) but it's rather limited. I also don't like not having the game compile to EXE. Maybe you're right and I just need to bite the bullet. Still, I want to see if I have a more half-n-half option first.

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Drakkcon    612
Why don't you try learning SDL with C++. SDL is used for 2D graphics, it's very easy to learn, and doesn't require difficult C++ knowledge. You could just learn C, and try SDL and see if it's for you. Later you can use OpenGL through SDL for 3D or more advanced stuff. You also could learn a more managable language like C#. You should check to see what oother languages that the engine is bound in.

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bytecoder    100
Quote:
 Python is kind of fun to mess around with(I have Pygame installed right now actually) but it's rather limited. I also don't like not having the game compile to EXE. Maybe you're right and I just need to bite the bullet. Still, I want to see if I have a more half-n-half option first.

Limited? Python is one of the most powerful languages I've ever worked with, and I've worked with alot of languages.

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petewood    819
There's py2exe and psyco if you want an executable or speediness respectively.

Python is an excellent language for beginners, intermediate programmers and advanced programmers alike. It is simple and powerful. Definitely worth learning. You don't get many bad things said about it compared to just about every other language you can think of.

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anonyman    122
Bytecoder: Sorry, I didn't mean to overstep myself. It seemed a little limited to me as far as what it was immediately obvious I could make with it. Perhaps I am mistaken about it.

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bytecoder    100
Quote:
 Bytecoder: Sorry, I didn't mean to overstep myself. It seemed a little limited to me as far as what it was immediately obvious I could make with it. Perhaps I am mistaken about it.

What exactly were you having trouble with? If you have any other problems don't be afraid to ask on these forums!

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ekrax    128
i'm not really an advanced coder but i found using some basic opengl tutorials i was able to set up a basic 2D engine for opengl. and for an IDE i use crimson editor and link hotkeys to my compiler and a hotkey for running the program. if you want to make games like tetris and breakout, i think this would suite you well, and it wont take any fun out of coding everything yourself.

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Thunder_Hawk    314
Quote:
 Original post by ekraxi'm not really an advanced coder but i found using some basic opengl tutorials i was able to set up a basic 2D engine for opengl. and for an IDE i use crimson editor and link hotkeys to my compiler and a hotkey for running the program. if you want to make games like tetris and breakout, i think this would suite you well, and it wont take any fun out of coding everything yourself.

Wahoo, I'm not the only one who uses Crimson Editor! I don't feel as lonely now. [wink]

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ekrax    128
good ol' crimson editor, all my programming software is freeware :)

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MaulingMonkey    1730
Quote:
 Original post by anonymanPython is kind of fun to mess around with(I have Pygame installed right now actually) but it's rather limited.

EVE Online: http://www.eve-online.com/

Is an MMORPG programmed in python, if memory serves me correctly.

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KimboTiger    123
I got a similar problem, I have been using VB6 for a couple year now and is just about started with VC6.

I do understand C/C++ but when it comes to windows-stuff it halts.

I think it's very difficult to make apps with VC6 (Win32), I think MSDN is not a very good source to learn from..
What alternative offline-sources could I get? (I know this is a VERY stupid question to ask)

Is there any good guides/tutorials to switch from VB6 to VC6? (Would be very pleased to know)

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Matei    190
C# is much easier to understand and work with than VC++6 or VC++ .NET. You might want to try that. There are several OpenGL libraries for C#, or, if you don't need cross-platform compatibility, you can use Managed DirectX, which should be less painful to use than the C++ DirectX API.

If you want a free IDE for C#, Google for SharpDevelop.

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KimboTiger    123
Thanks, I will look at it... must install C# first!

But one last thing: How fast is C#? (as C/C++?) and is C# a good platform to make games?

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Luctus    584
C# is generally slightly slower and slightly more demanding on the system than a low-level language like C++, but unless you're planning on making a Doom3 killer it won't matter a bit.

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Squirm    481
If you just want to do C++ and don't want to have to mess about with the windows and MFC, use SDL :) Just because it _would_ work on other platforms doesn't mean you have to port all your code...

seriously... how easy can it get?
    Uint32 Flags = SDL_ANYFORMAT|SDL_OPENGL|SDL_HWSURFACE|SDL_DOUBLEBUF;    SDL_Init(SDL_INIT_VIDEO);    SDL_Surface * Surface = SDL_SetVideoMode(800, 640, 32, Flags));    /* ... */    SDL_Quit();

want it fullscreen? add SDL_FULLSCREEN to the flags :)

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anonyman    122
For the moment I am brushing up some more on python and probably messing with Pygame. Once I get bored with it I will probably head back into C++ and SDL. Due to some of the answers I got to this thread I decided to look deeper into Python, and I must admit it is very easy(I mean that in a good way), and would probably be a good way to practice actual programming methods without getting bogged down in syntax.