I would be interested in putting perma-death in a single player game. I always find there isnt sufficient risk factor in single player games, at least in MMOg's you can penalize the player for dieing(taking away their inventory or something) but in SP they can simply reload. You could implement a devilish auto save system but is there anyway to get around the player crashing out?
What is fun? (MMORPG)
Probably could do an on end of program thing... where if the program is termanated it autosaves before doing so. But you could probably get around that by the "End Process" route through Task Manager.
First of all, I would like to say that in context PKers aren't necessarily jerks. I was a PKer in Everquest towards the end, but that was because I was on a PvP teams server, and I was a rogue, who you expect to be a petty thug. I didn't do it to be a jerk, I was just playing my character the way a rogue should be played (even though I only ever won one fight).
Now about the limits. There have to be some limits placed on PvP combat, especially if you impliment permadeath. Otherwise you could have a level 50 mage cast necrosis on a level one player and dissolve them immediately.
Everquest handled this by setting caps. A level 20 player couldn't attack anyone over level 25 or under level 15, and players couldn't even participate in PvP until level 6 (could be five. It's been a couple of years).
Now as for the permadeath and name quests, you would lose a lot of players with permadeath and there would be a lot of confusion with name quests. Why work up to level 20 and get a lot of the good spells, thousands of gold pieces (or whatever your currency is), and maybe even a horse, then lose everything but your name when some punk druid roots you while you're trying to run from a puma?
And if you have to go on a long quest for your name, how will unnamed players interact with each other? Names are very important for interaction.
Oh, I almost forgot. It would be interesting to see large scale storylines, such as NPC orcs attempting to taking over a city (not a city with a storyline of having been captured, but an established city that's invaded at random intervals). Maybe even effects from the weather. For example, lightening could cause a forest fire, which would injure anyone who touched the flames, or lightening could hit players that are swimming during a storm.
Now about the limits. There have to be some limits placed on PvP combat, especially if you impliment permadeath. Otherwise you could have a level 50 mage cast necrosis on a level one player and dissolve them immediately.
Everquest handled this by setting caps. A level 20 player couldn't attack anyone over level 25 or under level 15, and players couldn't even participate in PvP until level 6 (could be five. It's been a couple of years).
Now as for the permadeath and name quests, you would lose a lot of players with permadeath and there would be a lot of confusion with name quests. Why work up to level 20 and get a lot of the good spells, thousands of gold pieces (or whatever your currency is), and maybe even a horse, then lose everything but your name when some punk druid roots you while you're trying to run from a puma?
And if you have to go on a long quest for your name, how will unnamed players interact with each other? Names are very important for interaction.
Oh, I almost forgot. It would be interesting to see large scale storylines, such as NPC orcs attempting to taking over a city (not a city with a storyline of having been captured, but an established city that's invaded at random intervals). Maybe even effects from the weather. For example, lightening could cause a forest fire, which would injure anyone who touched the flames, or lightening could hit players that are swimming during a storm.
I dont like MMORPGS. They aren't fun. Sure, I've been addicted to one before, but I wasn't having fun even then, which is why I quit.
My vision of a good MMORPG: No skills and no advancement. How is a game without ginding possible? Why would anyone even play the game? Players should want to play a game because it's FUN to play.
Here's a novel idea: Take advancement out of the equation. NOW design the game. Yeah, you'll probably have to do better than this old formula: "5 players form a party based on their levels and classes, then go have their characters stand around a poorly animated monster and swing their swords at nothing. As if this wasn't lame enough, once they have killed the monster, they have to sit around and do NOTHING until they heal. Oh yeah, and there's crafting in there somehow." MOVE ON. How about a battle system that relies on player skill rather than on character level? How about something else to do besides battle that doesn't reek of last-minute, side-quest, dead-end bullshit? Maybe I'm asking to take the RPG out of MMORPG. So be it. Whatever doesn't make it suck so badly.
My vision of a good MMORPG: No skills and no advancement. How is a game without ginding possible? Why would anyone even play the game? Players should want to play a game because it's FUN to play.
Here's a novel idea: Take advancement out of the equation. NOW design the game. Yeah, you'll probably have to do better than this old formula: "5 players form a party based on their levels and classes, then go have their characters stand around a poorly animated monster and swing their swords at nothing. As if this wasn't lame enough, once they have killed the monster, they have to sit around and do NOTHING until they heal. Oh yeah, and there's crafting in there somehow." MOVE ON. How about a battle system that relies on player skill rather than on character level? How about something else to do besides battle that doesn't reek of last-minute, side-quest, dead-end bullshit? Maybe I'm asking to take the RPG out of MMORPG. So be it. Whatever doesn't make it suck so badly.
A couple of questions about the system you wish to impliment (because I have been trying to figure out how to do something similar for my own piece of mind).
How do you plan on having the characters control the form of the battle?
Do you want them to use projectiles only or are you going to make the only attacks possible predisposed attacks that are based from a mouse click?
Or do you mean to make it so that all attacks and blocks are made from the keyboard (in which case that combat may be too complicated for the player to use properly)
I'm just curious about what you think because of the fact that those questions above are the problems I could come up with from trying to figure out how to impliment that system.
How do you plan on having the characters control the form of the battle?
Do you want them to use projectiles only or are you going to make the only attacks possible predisposed attacks that are based from a mouse click?
Or do you mean to make it so that all attacks and blocks are made from the keyboard (in which case that combat may be too complicated for the player to use properly)
I'm just curious about what you think because of the fact that those questions above are the problems I could come up with from trying to figure out how to impliment that system.
Author
Quote:Original post by Megalith
I have played alot of MMORPG's, I tend to play as a "powergamer" with ambition which has led me to make and lead some pretty significant guilds (in AO, EQ and UO these got to quite some size, www.nanoclan.com hosts the site for my latest creation which is the guild Storm in Anarchy Online where im known as Wolfe.)
i would like to respond to all of these posts (and i will tomarrow) but its late and i just got my wisdom teeth yanked. i just wanted to say how excited i am to see that the great Wolfe posted here. i used to play AO, and when i played Storm was, and probly still is the largest force to be reckoned with in the game. anyway, just wanted to tip my hat to Wolfe.
Quote:Original post by HART
permadeath is my way of dealing with the asshole problem. as i see it now, people like to be jerks because its fun. honestly. but if people could also be a hero, and hunt down the jerks, i think there would be a balance of good guys and bad guys. bad guys would be disliked amoung the community, they would be outcasts not welcomed in citys. but good guys would be welcomed as heroes for risking theyre life to kill bad guys, and as such people would probly help them by giving them discounts to items and such.
Have you considered that permadeath is the ultimate grind?
Quote:Original post by fierywater
here is the thing though. the grind solution i thought of, isnt an instant level up. you dont gain xp super fast or anything. it still takes time to build your character and if someone has spent a few weeks on there character, they are going to be careful about what they do and say to other players.
If it still takes time to build your character, and dying now tripps the ultimate downtime generator ... how does that prevent downtime?
Quote:Original post by fierywateryou have a very good point here. progressing is one of the main things people do in MMORPGs. i did a little thinking(not a lot), and i came up with this idea. what if people have to quest for theyre name at the beggining of the game. this quest takes awhile, not something most people can do in one day. after the quest you are allowed to create your name(this also might make a few people less likely to pick a dumb name). if during the course of the game you are killed by a player, you still have your name, you just loose all your skills. one of the purposes then in this game, would to be to make your name well known. you could either do this by being infamous or famous. on top of the name thing though, there will need to be much more content, goals to achieve, ways to interact with the world, im still trying to think that stuff up.
Keeping on the 'you have worked out a way to prevent all grinding', have you seen that the questing system in WoW has been regarded as grinding? So, this being the case adding a quest just to get your name doesn't sound like the way to prevent grinding.
Not that a quest to get your name couldn't be done in a cool way.
Quote:Original post by fierywaterpermadeath doesnt penalize just assholes, anyone can die. it just gives them something to actually be afraid of. it kind of adds to the rush of battle too though.
In otherwords it penalizes everybody?
Perma-death is an interesting option, although balancing it in such away that casual players, or heck even hardcore players enjoy it can be troubling.
Some of the flaws I see in it is a group of arsehat players banding together to power level characters to enact their arsehat ways on other people.
I would be interested in seeing some polls with real users on how they enjoy the concept of perma death.
Well to start off with i'd just like to let kno a few things about me:
- i'm pretty much new to MMOPRG's and the only one ihave played so far is Runescape from www.miniclip.com
- this is because i'm a university student and can't financially afford to have the internet at home, I only managed to gain the experience playng runescape because the game is absolutely FREE.. Also the fact that the game doesn't require download or purchase as it runs directly off some online java client means that i could play the game from practically anywhere (even the uni computers, hehehe i'm a cheapskate i kno..)
Ok in my oppinion, one of the things that made Runescape such and interesting game to play was deifinately the variety of skills available to the player to master. there was stuff like fishing, crafting (making jewellery, clothes, ornaments etc..), cooking, wood cutting, mining, smithing and loads more. This mean't that play became much more of a job based affair rather than just levelling up you character to go and fight monsters etc. For the 20+ hrs i played the game, i spent my time earning a living in some trade (mine was mining ore and smelting it to make weapons for sale and also buying uncut gemstones, getting them cut and selling them on for people to use to make jewellery). In the time i played i found that the majority of enjoyment wasn't in the 'powergamer' role but just having the ability to play a very different and unique role in the game world.
I think that a good MMORPG would be one that gives the player the chance to play however they want to. If the player wishes to become a hero and go on quests to become famous and powerful then let the player do so..
If the player wishes to become the greatest fisherman in the land and go out into harsh waters and catch great whites and killerwhales then let the player do so..
If the player wishes to live in a single village, buy a property, convert it into a shop and sell goods for a living whilst going down to the local every once and a while to chat with his mates, then let the player do so..
I think the more 'Roles' you put into a 'Role Playing Game' can only make for a much more rich and engaging experience.
On top of that i think that another good idea would be 'the reduction of NPC's in the virtual world'. what i mean by this is, Have your essencial NPC's that are responsible for various game aspects etc. but allow for more of the NPC role's in the game to be taken up by players..
for instance,
If you have a world with lets say the kings loyal elite guard that hold the peace and make sure that players don't break certain rules in a city.. allow players to train to become these elites.. If a player break the rules then these elites have the authority to deal with the player (maybe throwing him in jail etc..), If the (elite) player tries to abuse his power then he would be cast down from his position and expelled from his ranks..
another example would be to allow players to become shop keepers or to provide a service to the rest of the world which NPC's would normally provide. Maybe give a general store keeper an NPC who goes out and buy's his stock for him from a special NPC warehouse. Allow the (shop keeper) player to, if successful in his trade, buy new properties and expand his business..
Now the role of a shop keeper in a world full of heroes and other, more adventurous roles may be one that the majority of players would dislike and choose not to adopt.. in this case maybe you could create (like runescape) a free service of play whereby players who aren't paying the monthly subscription to play the game could take up these lesser game roles and not have to pay a penny..
This would encourage more people to play the game overall and once a 'free-player' is bored of his game role, he could consider paying the subscription to give himself more options of play and open up more of the game to himself..
Another advantage of this would be that it would allow players to make special relationships with those that provide the services in the game world..
If a player is an asshole and a griefer, maybe shopkeepers who hear of his antics wouldn't trade goods with him..
Another example is if a player gets good friends with a baker, he may get discounted prices, freebies or whatever quality of service the baker wishes to give..
I think these ideas implemented into an MMORPG would lead to a VERY interesting, immersive, and enjoyable experience for many different types of players across the world..
- i'm pretty much new to MMOPRG's and the only one ihave played so far is Runescape from www.miniclip.com
- this is because i'm a university student and can't financially afford to have the internet at home, I only managed to gain the experience playng runescape because the game is absolutely FREE.. Also the fact that the game doesn't require download or purchase as it runs directly off some online java client means that i could play the game from practically anywhere (even the uni computers, hehehe i'm a cheapskate i kno..)
Ok in my oppinion, one of the things that made Runescape such and interesting game to play was deifinately the variety of skills available to the player to master. there was stuff like fishing, crafting (making jewellery, clothes, ornaments etc..), cooking, wood cutting, mining, smithing and loads more. This mean't that play became much more of a job based affair rather than just levelling up you character to go and fight monsters etc. For the 20+ hrs i played the game, i spent my time earning a living in some trade (mine was mining ore and smelting it to make weapons for sale and also buying uncut gemstones, getting them cut and selling them on for people to use to make jewellery). In the time i played i found that the majority of enjoyment wasn't in the 'powergamer' role but just having the ability to play a very different and unique role in the game world.
I think that a good MMORPG would be one that gives the player the chance to play however they want to. If the player wishes to become a hero and go on quests to become famous and powerful then let the player do so..
If the player wishes to become the greatest fisherman in the land and go out into harsh waters and catch great whites and killerwhales then let the player do so..
If the player wishes to live in a single village, buy a property, convert it into a shop and sell goods for a living whilst going down to the local every once and a while to chat with his mates, then let the player do so..
I think the more 'Roles' you put into a 'Role Playing Game' can only make for a much more rich and engaging experience.
On top of that i think that another good idea would be 'the reduction of NPC's in the virtual world'. what i mean by this is, Have your essencial NPC's that are responsible for various game aspects etc. but allow for more of the NPC role's in the game to be taken up by players..
for instance,
If you have a world with lets say the kings loyal elite guard that hold the peace and make sure that players don't break certain rules in a city.. allow players to train to become these elites.. If a player break the rules then these elites have the authority to deal with the player (maybe throwing him in jail etc..), If the (elite) player tries to abuse his power then he would be cast down from his position and expelled from his ranks..
another example would be to allow players to become shop keepers or to provide a service to the rest of the world which NPC's would normally provide. Maybe give a general store keeper an NPC who goes out and buy's his stock for him from a special NPC warehouse. Allow the (shop keeper) player to, if successful in his trade, buy new properties and expand his business..
Now the role of a shop keeper in a world full of heroes and other, more adventurous roles may be one that the majority of players would dislike and choose not to adopt.. in this case maybe you could create (like runescape) a free service of play whereby players who aren't paying the monthly subscription to play the game could take up these lesser game roles and not have to pay a penny..
This would encourage more people to play the game overall and once a 'free-player' is bored of his game role, he could consider paying the subscription to give himself more options of play and open up more of the game to himself..
Another advantage of this would be that it would allow players to make special relationships with those that provide the services in the game world..
If a player is an asshole and a griefer, maybe shopkeepers who hear of his antics wouldn't trade goods with him..
Another example is if a player gets good friends with a baker, he may get discounted prices, freebies or whatever quality of service the baker wishes to give..
I think these ideas implemented into an MMORPG would lead to a VERY interesting, immersive, and enjoyable experience for many different types of players across the world..
What I like in MMORPGs:
-An advanced class system. (For example, look at the game Ragnarok Online. There are 17-23 classes, depending on the server you're playing. You start out as the Novice Class, then you can decided between 5 1st class (Acolyte or example), then you can choose between two 2nd class (Acolyte -> Priest or Monk). Finally, some servers have the new Advanced 2nd Class (Priest -> High Priest and Monk-> Champion)
-PvP - What's the point of MMORPGs without this?
-Guild Wars - See above
-Houses - I've never played an MMORPG with a housing system, but it sounds like fun.!
-Online Marriges (Its fun! You can give newly weds like a high stat boost for their aniversaries and stuff.)
-Class Balance (This is a must. All classes must be balanced. That doesn't mean that a person using a dagger should be able to beat a person using a bow, which has an advantage.)
-Events! (All communities MUST have fun events. Fun doesn't mean summoning monsters in a large city and people lagging and killing em.
-Mini games (Capture the flag, team battle, or perhaps try to work in the new Splinter Cell multiplayer game in there somehow. XD. etc)
What I don't like:
-Crappy battle system (A FF battle system would not do well in an MMORPG)
-Server lag (Easy nuff.)
-Exploits (If there's a major exploit on a skill or something, disable that skill until you can fix it.)
And many more, but that's all I have time for. Good luck.
-An advanced class system. (For example, look at the game Ragnarok Online. There are 17-23 classes, depending on the server you're playing. You start out as the Novice Class, then you can decided between 5 1st class (Acolyte or example), then you can choose between two 2nd class (Acolyte -> Priest or Monk). Finally, some servers have the new Advanced 2nd Class (Priest -> High Priest and Monk-> Champion)
-PvP - What's the point of MMORPGs without this?
-Guild Wars - See above
-Houses - I've never played an MMORPG with a housing system, but it sounds like fun.!
-Online Marriges (Its fun! You can give newly weds like a high stat boost for their aniversaries and stuff.)
-Class Balance (This is a must. All classes must be balanced. That doesn't mean that a person using a dagger should be able to beat a person using a bow, which has an advantage.)
-Events! (All communities MUST have fun events. Fun doesn't mean summoning monsters in a large city and people lagging and killing em.
-Mini games (Capture the flag, team battle, or perhaps try to work in the new Splinter Cell multiplayer game in there somehow. XD. etc)
What I don't like:
-Crappy battle system (A FF battle system would not do well in an MMORPG)
-Server lag (Easy nuff.)
-Exploits (If there's a major exploit on a skill or something, disable that skill until you can fix it.)
And many more, but that's all I have time for. Good luck.
This topic is closed to new replies.
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