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Nahoopii

MMO Casino!

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Hi Folks, Although I post often in the writing forum, this is my first in the game design forum, so YAAYY for me! I was wondering if anyone had some input to add here, Id like some feedback on what you designers think. I was thinking the other day of a great project to start. Personally, Id like to see it a free service on a console machine, but these are decisions to be made at a later time. For the MMORPG, its really just a casino. One, big, every game encompassing casino, making it an MMORPG in that many people are in the same casino at the same time, playing the some games, etc. Instead of gambling with real money, theres a point system that mimics your monetary value- as I believe the legal hassels for real money are unavoidable. Other than that, thats all that would make it an MMORPG.. There arent stats or levels, just playing your everday casino games. The best part is in the customization. Much like Need For Speed Underground, I would want the customization for your character to be as near unlimited as possible. Players would spend their money won from the casino on different attire for their character to wear. From cheap to expensive, players could customize their outfit ranging from wife beater tank tops, to pimp suit outfits, to the most expensive of clothing. Players could buy themselves drinks, again ranging in price, where some would carry a generic beer can, while others are constantly sipping on the most expensive of drinks out of that fanciest of glasses. Players could pay for male/female escorts to accompany them for the night, then go sit at a texas holdem table, where their opponents are going to know they just spent $1000 just to have an NPC follow them around. From judging the exterior of opponents, players could be able to tell with some certainty exactly how much their opponents are playing. Sit down with a table full of high rollers wearing a pair of shorts and a tourist type hawaiian shirt, and youll most likely be the laughing stock of the table. Id like to also include the ability to own a car. Although, I dont like the idea of giving a player the ability to drive themselves (in fear of turning the driving expierience into a GTA type escapade) I forsee players owning cars, and when choosing to leave the current casino in their vehicle, it would be an computer controlled car trip, where players, who are less fortunate and walking, will see the players name above the car and establish, if you will, a presence of authority. There are some more details that I wish to flesh out before posting, but if you have any feedback, Id love to hear it. Thanks in advance. EDIT: Changes the title [Edited by - Nahoopii on August 25, 2004 5:42:26 PM]

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Sit down with a table full of high rollers wearing a pair of shorts and a tourist type hawaiian shirt, and youll most likely be the laughing stock of the table.

That'd be me ;)

What's your thinking behind putting it on a console? Are you solidly behind that? I don't think I've seen many casino games on consoles, as (in my opinion) they are better suited for mice. Well, I guess you can get USB mice for PS2 and I'm sure XBox has an equivalent.

Another cool thing you may think about adding is being "staff" in the casino. I've personally always wanted to be a Blackjack dealer. Or something. You could give people jobs in the casino, either as a full-time job or as punishment for running out of funds. IE:

Me: "I'm all in boys!"
Comp: "Then I guess you're all out."
*Comp lays down royal flush.
Me: "Dammit. Now what do I do?"
Security: "Start scrubbing dishes..."

This could add an *interesting* incentive not to be a table troll(?) and, for those of us who enjoy but are not necessarily good at casino games, a chance to score some money (as opposed to losing it all).

But it sounds like a great idea! You definitely have at least one subscriber!

EDIT: Oh - and you may want to change the title of the thread to: "Casino MMORPG"

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Already good feedback, I couldnt be more pleased. Its not something I been working years on, just.. the best, most applicable idea in recent memory.

I say console, based on just one fact. When Vegas Stakes came out on the SNES, it was a big hit, and was only various casino games. There is a great lack of card/casino games available on consoles, probably for obvious reasons. I forsee it as a console game, solely for lack of competition. Anyone can turn on the internet, and play hearts/holdem/stud on the internet, but how many people do it on their couch?

Also note, I said free... I dont see this as a "game" in all honesty. But put it like this:

Poke has always been HUGE. Mainstream poker is only recently getting bigger. The TV tournament, the almost-instant fluxuation of poker clothing (shirts with cards on them, etc.) I was just trying to capitolize on this recent jump of interest before someone else did.. (posting on the internet.. not the best of ways!)

As for working, I LOVE the idea, but I dont see to many players opting to earn cash on tips rather than use the free points/money to play. I was trying to decide a balance mechanism. I DONT want to limit the players on how much they play depending on their win/loss ratio. I was thinking maybe a monthly income/allowance, however if only you knew how many times Ive sat at a table and gone all in and loss..it wouldnt be fair to make players wait weeks and days before they can play again.

I would need a system of balancing how much a player has to play with, and if they lose it, whats the penalty? A job, as you mentioned, was my next idea, however I dont want to take time away from the player if all they want to do is sit and play cards.. after all, thats what the game is for. I can only say that I would need a scoring system, where players are given a rated score depending on their playing expierience, and keep the score seperate from their money allowance. Anyways, all extra stuff that hasnt been fleshed out..Thanks MUSHU!

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Since all casino's have the odds stacked towards them, the players are rapidly going to run out of money (especially if you expect them to get out of that Hawaiian shirt). How are you going to combat this?

I see several options:
Change the odds to be in favor of the players.
Adv- relatively little programming
Dis- changes nature of the games you want to emulate. Also, it will be difficult to make changes in game in order to balance the economy.

Create jobs.
Adv- steady source of income
dis- who want to play a game to work? Unless these jobs are CEO's then the income will be relatively small

Computer players with lots of money that lose.
adv- looks more natural this way. Much easier to regulate the money available. Makes your casino seem fuller.
dis- bots will require more programming. People may pick up on thefact that the bots lose lots of money and may grief or scam the bots. wont work on all games (such as slots)


I think the bots is the best single option, but it would probably work well with the jobs. Changing the game mechanics is not something I would recommend. Players in a casino expect Casino games, not modified versions.

Could you also change the title to "Casino MMO"? I nearly skipped it because of the title when its actually a good idea.

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Im %100 against changing the game mechanics. Thats just not an option, for the same reason you mentioned. Thanks for the ideas, bots who lose money would make a good balancing mechanism. Ill put forth serious thought into how I would want that to work, should that be the chosen road.

In your opinion Thermodynamics, or anyone for that matter, what do you think of an overall scoring system? Player who run out of money would get an infinite amount of loans from the bank, making it impossible to not have the ability to play. In this aspect, I would not be trying to emulate real life in that we all have the restrictions of how much we have to spend, only emulating the play of the casino games. Since I want to capture the atmosphere of playing the games and competing with other people and against the casino, running out of money and losing the ability to play is of top concern. If a player has a loan out, then we would restrict what that player can buy. No new clothes, no cars, no drinks, just rounding with their dollars and trying to make a profit.

Then theres the concern of having too much loaned out on their name, to the point where players would never get back to sqaure one. In these cases, a quick solution for us designers, would be to give them the option to declare bankrupcy, and owe $0, while losing anything they have purchased in the meantime. Bankrupcy would siginicantly take a hit to the players overall score.

And lastly, with this score, the better the score, the different casinos available. Some casinos will only be available to the players with the best of scores, while low scoring players will remain in the original options of casinos. In that, high roller good scoring players have that option to only play against other "like minded" players, and still can go to the more populated low scoring servers, while low scoring players will have something to work for..

(please remember, theres an ungodly amount of balancing with the above ideas, as they are all unworked, unfinished, possible solutions to the most obvious of problems for a MMO Casino type game)


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To me, you already created a scoring system with the options to buy clothes and everything else. The scoring system on top of that would be either ignored or... I don't know. Maybe it would work. I don't like a scoring system on first blush, but then again I am just one person, and I may change my mind.

Btw - Nice title :)

I think I would enjoy the anoniminity(sp?) of not having a scoring system. That way I could sit down at a high rollers table in my flip-flops and shorts (no shirt) and proceed to bet large sums, just to throw my opponents off.

But, hey! Its not my game.

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Im not asking you to solve the problems in my game.. just mearly asking for an opinion from a large audience that you are a part of, whos opinion I value very much.. Thanks very much.

I dont want to alienate players with multiple scoring systems. It would be interesting to see what others would say. Maybe a second scoring system is too much.. But money is both what players spend on clothes to assert themsleves, and whats used to play the games and spark the heart of the gameplay. Being the perfectionist Id like to someday be :), its a touchy subject that I will take serious time and effort perfecting.

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What this game sounds like www.gaiaonline.com, whenever the promised beta will come out. Their pending casino addition will be less realistic and instead of Hawaiian shirts, it's flame pants, but basically everything you've described has a counterpart on gaia.

IMHO, having player dealers is a bad idea, since they're easily bribed and most casino games; the dealer has a very robotic job.

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Personally, I think since everyone (theoretically) will start out with the same thing, how much money they have accumulated will reflect their skill as a player. Thus, an additional scoring system is not a necessity, IMHO.

People that succeed, have more money, and get cooler stuff. People that don't, just don't. No second scoring needed.

And, yeah, on second thought, player dealers would be a bad idea, wouldn't they. Unless they didn't know they were dealers! Ah! :P

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My biggest issue at this point then, is combating the downside of players losing all their money, and not being able to play any of the casino games.

If I allow for players to take loans from the bank, what are some suggestions that you may have in order to ensure that the playability doesnt stop, however control the idea of players having infinite amounts of money.

Is locking what they can purchase when they have a loan out on their name sufficient? In this way, players would always be able to play, but if they owe money they cant change their exterior or customize their appereance whatsoever.. I guess Im trying to develop a penalty for having losing all their money without penalizing their ability to play the games..

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