have you considered simply resetting their player? including any stuff theyve bought, etc.. adding a counter in a player profile screen or something that shows how many times theyve lost it all could be incentive enough to not suck.. i suppose how well this would work would depend largely on how much you give players to start.. if its too much, they have little reason to play carefully, if its too little, they cant do a whole lot..
also, if you insist on having a story based reason, they left and came back a month later ;p
MMO Casino!
A few ideas:
Give the players their loans, but give them visual penalities for not paying up on time. Have loan sharks/thugs come in, grab them and strip them to their underwear as "payment", kick them out of the casino and send them back to the starting score. Maybe if they're in debt for a lot, have a literal "monkey on their back" who reaches out and snatches a percentage of all their winnings until they've paid back their loan.
Have other "loan" options, such as lottery tickets a player can purchase. Have a random bot high roller who, when he/she wins big, gives out cash to the people at his table. Maybe players can give out loans to other players, with specified interest rates/terms.
An idea from an old MUD I played; every player could automatically receive a daily/weekly "salary" or stipend. This way, whether they play or not they're receiving a small income - and an influx of cash. A player in debt could have a percentage of their stipend deducted automatically, helping pay it off.
[Edited by - EricTrickster on August 26, 2004 2:34:42 PM]
Give the players their loans, but give them visual penalities for not paying up on time. Have loan sharks/thugs come in, grab them and strip them to their underwear as "payment", kick them out of the casino and send them back to the starting score. Maybe if they're in debt for a lot, have a literal "monkey on their back" who reaches out and snatches a percentage of all their winnings until they've paid back their loan.
Have other "loan" options, such as lottery tickets a player can purchase. Have a random bot high roller who, when he/she wins big, gives out cash to the people at his table. Maybe players can give out loans to other players, with specified interest rates/terms.
An idea from an old MUD I played; every player could automatically receive a daily/weekly "salary" or stipend. This way, whether they play or not they're receiving a small income - and an influx of cash. A player in debt could have a percentage of their stipend deducted automatically, helping pay it off.
[Edited by - EricTrickster on August 26, 2004 2:34:42 PM]
Casino games are intentionally set up so that even with "perfect" strategy, the house still wins. Because of this, if you don't change game mechanics or add other games to tilt the balance to favor the player, pretty much everyone's going to be constantly in debt.
You could have a few games in which it is easy to when money, with little to no risk of losing any. In fact, you may make it so you can win a little when you have no money whatsoever. Then keep track of the total "value" of the player. That is, the value of everything he owns plus his current money. If it is above some value he would not be allowed to take part in these games. If his winnings at this game push his value above the limit, he is told to go play at another table.
If the player's value is too high, but doesn't have enough money to play the "real" games, then he would have to start selling his belongings.
These games do not even have to be casino games, it is just a means for a player to go back and play the big games.
Anyways, its an idea. :)
If the player's value is too high, but doesn't have enough money to play the "real" games, then he would have to start selling his belongings.
These games do not even have to be casino games, it is just a means for a player to go back and play the big games.
Anyways, its an idea. :)
Author
Great suggestions, thanks guys.
I like this. Off the top of my head, and addition. Players should have the ability to keep one item. After going bankrupt and have their in-game character start from scrath, players will keep that one item, however it will have a new patch/tear/hole.. some kind of visual representation that the item is getting old and needs to be replaced. In this way, I hope to keep players interested as they do have something to show for the time they have spent, however that item to the rest of the players will mean just that much less.. as all it will represent is at some time, the opponent HAD that item in mint condition, but has since seen some terrible days!
This is the best idea yet..I love it.. Not only is it going to represent visually to other players where the "in-debt" player currently stands, its a constant reminder that forward progress is not going to happen with a monkey on your back taking your profits... Living proof why I love these message boards. Thanks for your time Eric.
I think I will use both. The player at any time could declare "Bunkrupcy", where their score (should their be one, im still leaning toward yes) would stay the same, but their debt will drop to $0. The player at which time would be able to choose 1 item within a preset price limit, the most expensive of items will not be savable. After choosing bankrupcy and choosing their 1 item, the item will become tarnished to a certain extent, and the player will again have the starting dollar amount.
On the other hand, players can choose to keep their current financial state, and opt to take a loan from the bank. The loan amount will dictate the aggresivness of the thugs and collectors, and if high enough, the player will have a permanent monkey on their back until they are no longer in debt. If players profit too much when a loan is out on their name, then the thugs will be very aggresive in obtaining their payment. Not physically agressive, at least, not in a gameplay aspect, but they will come and force the player to give a certain % of their cash on hand. (however there will obviously be physically abusive animations, just not in the gameplay aspect)
In this system, I believe a certain amount of balance between gameplay for the players, and a monetary balance in the casino all together. Does anyone have any comments, complaints, suggestions, or revisions to my above balance system? Im very confident that something like whats above would achieve what it is im trying to accomplish...
Quote:Original post by DEbig3
have you considered simply resetting their player? including any stuff theyve bought, etc..
I like this. Off the top of my head, and addition. Players should have the ability to keep one item. After going bankrupt and have their in-game character start from scrath, players will keep that one item, however it will have a new patch/tear/hole.. some kind of visual representation that the item is getting old and needs to be replaced. In this way, I hope to keep players interested as they do have something to show for the time they have spent, however that item to the rest of the players will mean just that much less.. as all it will represent is at some time, the opponent HAD that item in mint condition, but has since seen some terrible days!
Quote:Original post by EricTrickster
Maybe if they're in debt for a lot, have a literal "monkey on their back" who reaches out and snatches a percentage of all their winnings until they've paid back their loan.
This is the best idea yet..I love it.. Not only is it going to represent visually to other players where the "in-debt" player currently stands, its a constant reminder that forward progress is not going to happen with a monkey on your back taking your profits... Living proof why I love these message boards. Thanks for your time Eric.
I think I will use both. The player at any time could declare "Bunkrupcy", where their score (should their be one, im still leaning toward yes) would stay the same, but their debt will drop to $0. The player at which time would be able to choose 1 item within a preset price limit, the most expensive of items will not be savable. After choosing bankrupcy and choosing their 1 item, the item will become tarnished to a certain extent, and the player will again have the starting dollar amount.
On the other hand, players can choose to keep their current financial state, and opt to take a loan from the bank. The loan amount will dictate the aggresivness of the thugs and collectors, and if high enough, the player will have a permanent monkey on their back until they are no longer in debt. If players profit too much when a loan is out on their name, then the thugs will be very aggresive in obtaining their payment. Not physically agressive, at least, not in a gameplay aspect, but they will come and force the player to give a certain % of their cash on hand. (however there will obviously be physically abusive animations, just not in the gameplay aspect)
In this system, I believe a certain amount of balance between gameplay for the players, and a monetary balance in the casino all together. Does anyone have any comments, complaints, suggestions, or revisions to my above balance system? Im very confident that something like whats above would achieve what it is im trying to accomplish...
I don't know if "balance" comes into play in a game like this, since all skill is player-based - not stat based.
I do agree with others that it would be better if the odds in the casinos were tilted towards the player, with the caveat that this tilt happen in the "beginner" casinos. "Let the wookie win." Give the player a sense of accomplishment, then make the odds harder as they move up the casino scale. Have the bot AI at the higher casinos have better skills to compete against the players.
A question: what is the "endgame"? There will come a point where you've gone on a hot streak, accumulated tons of "wealth" and gained entry to every casino? What then? What incentive is there for a high roller to keep playing past a certain amount?
I do agree with others that it would be better if the odds in the casinos were tilted towards the player, with the caveat that this tilt happen in the "beginner" casinos. "Let the wookie win." Give the player a sense of accomplishment, then make the odds harder as they move up the casino scale. Have the bot AI at the higher casinos have better skills to compete against the players.
A question: what is the "endgame"? There will come a point where you've gone on a hot streak, accumulated tons of "wealth" and gained entry to every casino? What then? What incentive is there for a high roller to keep playing past a certain amount?
Quote:Original post by EricTrickster
A question: what is the "endgame"? There will come a point where you've gone on a hot streak, accumulated tons of "wealth" and gained entry to every casino? What then? What incentive is there for a high roller to keep playing past a certain amount?
Well, since it is supposed to be an MMO, would there ever be an end game? I mean, you could just max out your character, but then discover new things are available to purchase (after Nahoopii realizes someone is richer than ever imagined) by adding more stuff.
You could also add more games with higher minimum bets... "I'll see your Canada and raise you Mexico!!"
And then you can always have muggers running amuk looking for the poor rich guy (no, pun intended) who happens to have no bodyguards... mwahaha
But hopefully no one will get rich quick at the tables...
EDIT: How about giving them a message which says "How sad - you beat a Casino MMO. Now why don't you go to Vegas and have some *real* fun??" :P
I'd say that the game has to be capable of expanding continually. As players get richer and richer, they're going to run out of stuff that's worth their while to do.
Having new, exciting things to buy is great, but once you reach a certain point, people just aren't really going to bother. Why make your way up to $100,000,000 just to buy some super-awesome-amazing piece of clothing that costs $99,000,000? After a certain point, people just aren't going to want to part with that many points just to get some clothing upgrade.
It'd take a while to create, but I propose (bear with me, I'd consider this a fantasy setting so it could make sense) having it so that once a player reaches some insane quantity of money, they are able to buy a spaceship flight to Mars or somewhere else completely different from Earth and play in their casinos.
The incentive would lie in that on Mars, they've deemed our games silly and our currency nearly worthless. So, while you might have $500,000 left after paying for your trip, that'd be worth almost nothing on Mars and so it would be like you're starting all over again but with the same Earth status.
Then, if you've bought the trip once, you can shuttle back and forth between Mars and Earth for free (or a small fee).
On Mars, everything could be different. The casino design, the NPCs and so on would obviously be very different. But what would be great is if you made the merchandise very Mars-y and the casino games completely different. They could still be card-based or whatever (though to make some differently styled games would be cool), but they wouldn't be anything like any casino games we're used to. It'd take a lot of work and creativity to come up with all of that, but it'd make it worth it for players to keep going.
Of course, then you have the issue of players attaining extreme wealth on Mars. Depending on your level of dedication, you could keep releasing new planets with new everything as players attain the levels necessary to reach them. Then when you come back to Earth from Uranus wearing your 24 karat gold Klerpnax, all the NPC escorts would be chasing you down just to bask in your bling.
Oh, and you'd definitely have to add a restaurant area with some cheesy dinner theater and musical performances by washed up singers from the 70s and 80s [wink]. Especially Kenny Rogers [grin].
-Auron
Having new, exciting things to buy is great, but once you reach a certain point, people just aren't really going to bother. Why make your way up to $100,000,000 just to buy some super-awesome-amazing piece of clothing that costs $99,000,000? After a certain point, people just aren't going to want to part with that many points just to get some clothing upgrade.
It'd take a while to create, but I propose (bear with me, I'd consider this a fantasy setting so it could make sense) having it so that once a player reaches some insane quantity of money, they are able to buy a spaceship flight to Mars or somewhere else completely different from Earth and play in their casinos.
The incentive would lie in that on Mars, they've deemed our games silly and our currency nearly worthless. So, while you might have $500,000 left after paying for your trip, that'd be worth almost nothing on Mars and so it would be like you're starting all over again but with the same Earth status.
Then, if you've bought the trip once, you can shuttle back and forth between Mars and Earth for free (or a small fee).
On Mars, everything could be different. The casino design, the NPCs and so on would obviously be very different. But what would be great is if you made the merchandise very Mars-y and the casino games completely different. They could still be card-based or whatever (though to make some differently styled games would be cool), but they wouldn't be anything like any casino games we're used to. It'd take a lot of work and creativity to come up with all of that, but it'd make it worth it for players to keep going.
Of course, then you have the issue of players attaining extreme wealth on Mars. Depending on your level of dedication, you could keep releasing new planets with new everything as players attain the levels necessary to reach them. Then when you come back to Earth from Uranus wearing your 24 karat gold Klerpnax, all the NPC escorts would be chasing you down just to bask in your bling.
Oh, and you'd definitely have to add a restaurant area with some cheesy dinner theater and musical performances by washed up singers from the 70s and 80s [wink]. Especially Kenny Rogers [grin].
-Auron
Example: DAOC. Once you max at level 50 there is still plenty for you, in PvP. Ranking systems, guild and individual, provide personal incentive to stay on top. Relic ownership affects your entire realm, giving further incentive to reach the higher levels and increase your standings. You acquire skills and items to be able to do more, to be stronger, better - and being better benefits your realm.
I can see a point where you can easily become bored as a gambler in a computer game. After a while it loses meaning because, to be blunt, winning has no meaning. Items don't mean anything except a certain visual status, and winnings just get you access to games with higher stakes and higher antes. You're playing with monopoly money, and with no end in sight you have to ask: what's the point of going on?
I'm just pointing out that there has to be some continuing challenge to this, or you'll have people dropping from boredom with the monotony.
Or be stuck with gambling addicts, trying to feed their addiction.
What benefits do having items convey? Because, I can tell you, it didn't take me long to figure out that I'd be better off saving all my cash rather than spending it on fluff. The items should mean more than status; perhaps you need better clothes to get access to private clubs (the velvet rope theory). Maybe there's a chance you'll get rolled by a carjacker, or a mugger. Or the mob, who think you're cheating. You need to spend money on bot bodyguards to protect you.
For the guys, there can be the requisite eye candy on the arm - but you need to keep her in diamonds and furs, or she'll leave you for another high roller. Give the women a boytoy version. If you don't keep him/her in enough stuff, maybe they'll rip you off and leave you penniless.
Hire an accountant to keep track of your money? He'll invest it for you in stocks...but choose wisely, or he'll skim a little off your profits here and there!
I guess I'm saying don't just limit the game to gambling in the casinos; add a "danger" element, based on the player's choices, to keep the game interesting and exciting. Make the items mean something and people will keep buying them - plus it gives you a cash sink, to keep money flowing rather than having people hoard cash.
Have leaderboards based on different games (public and private) and earnings. Have casino "champs" based on these values, giving people a certain notoreity - and increase certain "danger" levels for earning that reputation. Fame gets you into the better places, but it also increases your risk - which you can decrease by hiring people to protect you, and your money. Buy jewels to keep in a safe deposit box. Open overseas accounts. Have the player approached with "financial opportunities" as their wealth increases - some of which are legit, some may be money laundering schemes for the mob (with the Feds, and bankruptcy, soon to follow!)
THAT would be a more exciting game for me, and give me incentive to keep playing. The chance at a larger game beyond gambling, I think, has more long-term value.
I can see a point where you can easily become bored as a gambler in a computer game. After a while it loses meaning because, to be blunt, winning has no meaning. Items don't mean anything except a certain visual status, and winnings just get you access to games with higher stakes and higher antes. You're playing with monopoly money, and with no end in sight you have to ask: what's the point of going on?
I'm just pointing out that there has to be some continuing challenge to this, or you'll have people dropping from boredom with the monotony.
Or be stuck with gambling addicts, trying to feed their addiction.
What benefits do having items convey? Because, I can tell you, it didn't take me long to figure out that I'd be better off saving all my cash rather than spending it on fluff. The items should mean more than status; perhaps you need better clothes to get access to private clubs (the velvet rope theory). Maybe there's a chance you'll get rolled by a carjacker, or a mugger. Or the mob, who think you're cheating. You need to spend money on bot bodyguards to protect you.
For the guys, there can be the requisite eye candy on the arm - but you need to keep her in diamonds and furs, or she'll leave you for another high roller. Give the women a boytoy version. If you don't keep him/her in enough stuff, maybe they'll rip you off and leave you penniless.
Hire an accountant to keep track of your money? He'll invest it for you in stocks...but choose wisely, or he'll skim a little off your profits here and there!
I guess I'm saying don't just limit the game to gambling in the casinos; add a "danger" element, based on the player's choices, to keep the game interesting and exciting. Make the items mean something and people will keep buying them - plus it gives you a cash sink, to keep money flowing rather than having people hoard cash.
Have leaderboards based on different games (public and private) and earnings. Have casino "champs" based on these values, giving people a certain notoreity - and increase certain "danger" levels for earning that reputation. Fame gets you into the better places, but it also increases your risk - which you can decrease by hiring people to protect you, and your money. Buy jewels to keep in a safe deposit box. Open overseas accounts. Have the player approached with "financial opportunities" as their wealth increases - some of which are legit, some may be money laundering schemes for the mob (with the Feds, and bankruptcy, soon to follow!)
THAT would be a more exciting game for me, and give me incentive to keep playing. The chance at a larger game beyond gambling, I think, has more long-term value.
Author
I cannot argue the monotony of games playing with monopoly money. I cannot argue that items of clothing are merely a royalty, and nothing more.
I can argue poker though. Gambling can be more than just casino games. Poker is different. You play against people. Its competitive, and its different on every hand, with every person you play. Poker does not have monotony. So in this light, Im not worried about monotony.
But casino games are VERY repetitive. So I can appreciate what you all have said in that aspect of the casino. In which case, I agree its thin ice Im treading on hoping that people could stay interested in going on.
But your cautions are also the bain of every MMO game, RPG or not. It just so happens, its much easier on a broader scope such as with an RPG, in comparison to a game the revolves around a casino.. Its back to the drawing board, next step: Keep the players HOOKED
(Mars is a great idea, new planets, new stuff, all the more attention back on Earth...awesome)
I can argue poker though. Gambling can be more than just casino games. Poker is different. You play against people. Its competitive, and its different on every hand, with every person you play. Poker does not have monotony. So in this light, Im not worried about monotony.
But casino games are VERY repetitive. So I can appreciate what you all have said in that aspect of the casino. In which case, I agree its thin ice Im treading on hoping that people could stay interested in going on.
But your cautions are also the bain of every MMO game, RPG or not. It just so happens, its much easier on a broader scope such as with an RPG, in comparison to a game the revolves around a casino.. Its back to the drawing board, next step: Keep the players HOOKED
(Mars is a great idea, new planets, new stuff, all the more attention back on Earth...awesome)
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