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sunandshadow

Fishman - critiques?

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This is my latest piece of work, unusual for me in that it's CGed rather than hand colored. (as I could tell from the fact that I had an eyestrainheadache the next day o.O ) It's a concept for a race of aquatic fishpeople. Yes, this is what I needed the swimming poses for. It was submitted as a bid for a MMORPG concept art contract, but didn't win the vote. :( Anyway, what would have improved this as concept art? (Note: I did a lineart drawing of a standard 3-d modelling pose also.)

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Guest Anonymous Poster
ya know... for some reason.. this picture reminds me of feudal japan.. that type of feel... samurai art...

the picture does convey the idea.. and the drawing itself is fairly sound...

it could do with shading... mainly... shading gives a drawing life.. unless the rpg is more a cartoony anime feel>? ...

some more slight detail (though u have a reasonable amount so far)

...i personally wouldnt use that background..the photoshop filter one that is... takes away from drawing...

most concept artists use black nib pens or thin markers for the outlines to give their drawings definition... (which u may have done but wasnt scanned well)

...work at it... you are getting there... well done so far...

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
ya know... for some reason.. this picture reminds me of feudal japan.. that type of feel... samurai art...


:) People always seem to say that about my art, usually they mention geishas, and someone mentioned egyptian art once. In developing my personal art style I started with a shoujo anime style and added an art noveau twist and a little bit of goth style.


Quote:

the picture does convey the idea.. and the drawing itself is fairly sound...

it could do with shading... mainly... shading gives a drawing life.. unless the rpg is more a cartoony anime feel? ...


The game did not yet have an art style, so I went with one that I like and doesn't take too much time to create, since I would be expected to maintain the style for all my concept drawings, and it would be a pain to have to use a difficult and time-consuming style over and over again. But yeah, some white highlights might have made it look more wet and alive, and the fins might look nicely electric if they were outlined in the neon green... Hmmm.

Quote:

some more slight detail (though u have a reasonable amount so far)

...i personally wouldnt use that background..the photoshop filter one that is... takes away from drawing...


Well, because it is so light-colored it looked wierd on a white background, and the pose only makes sense if you can figure out it's swimming, so I wanted a quick and easy background that looked like water. It looks at least as good as the blue scribbles with maybe a seaweed and some strategically placed bubbles that I would have gone with if I'd been hand-coloring the picture.

Quote:

most concept artists use black nib pens or thin markers for the outlines to give their drawings definition... (which u may have done but wasnt scanned well)

...work at it... you are getting there... well done so far...


Thanks. :) That's why I made this thread - because I want to know what direction I should be working in. As for the pens, I've tried that, but I find I get much nicer-looking scans if I don't ink - I like a more subtle look, the pens make the lines too forceful and cartony. I could certainly have spent more time on cleaning up the lineart though.

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I think the sketch does what it needs to for concept art. It fills the gap between an idea or written description and the specific artistic decisions needed by the modeller. Well done in that regard.

I agree with Anonymous regarding background choice. Not a serious issue, but it would enhance the work to place it against something less active. Let our eyes rest on the subject of the work. In fact, I'd guess this picture would appear significantly stronger with that one trivial change.

As for shading comment, one can go too far with shading in the concepts. On the other hand, unshaded silhouettes don't really describe all the 3D volumes the concept should be defining. That's the case here, and in my opinion some minimal shading would really enhance your concept.

Lastly, I'd think through what this pose communicates about how this concept would move in the water. It does have that Japanese winding dragon kind of feel, but it also makes one feel a bit crowded with too much water resistance to be in that position in the water. Perhaps he's bundled up to build power for a kick!

That's about it, nice job sunandshadow. I like the feel of the character and bet it would be a really good looking model with some high-quality textures and underwater shading applied!

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Guest Anonymous Poster
looked at site

flyingnekomimi.jpg ...is that done with photoshop? ..i ask because of the straight lines... it looks good.. defined lines..
actually that is a great pose from a 3d modeller's point of view...
the da vinci pose i think they call it, best pose for modelling from...
i like it...
i wouldnt have used a manga head personally.. but thats my opinion..

a technique my storyboard teacher told me was to use a gray marker to sketch the drawing "fairly quickly" ... then use a thinner black marker to draw the lineart and give it definition... the grey marker can either act as shading or dissappear altogether depending on the shade you use... the defined lines sell your concept/storyboard... it makes it look like a picture done all at once.. a master of the art as it where..

there is a specific marker for this technique that has 3 (thats right.. 3) nibs on it ... darron or danon ?... i think they are 10-20 euro each... which is expensive for one marker.....

isamufullbody.jpg ...that has good shading.. thumbs up

can i suggest you try a different style to manga... for to challenge urself... if u are looking to challenge urself that is...
even just alter the formula's used in manga .. the eyebrow etiquette for eye's and that...

and the final thing i'll say is that i like fishmandiving.jpg + fishmanswimming over fishman.jpg ....definitely.. looks more preened and that.
You shouldnt feel the need to fill space ... clarity..
i think the rough edges from cutting and pasting it onto that photoshop background has a bearing on it to so i cant give a good opinion....
your fishman character looks like the same character from pose to pose which is most definitely a good thing...

geez.. b4 ya know it.. ya have written a page :o

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
looked at site

flyingnekomimi.jpg ...is that done with photoshop? ..i ask because of the straight lines... it looks good.. defined lines..
actually that is a great pose from a 3d modeller's point of view...
the da vinci pose i think they call it, best pose for modelling from...
i like it...
i wouldnt have used a manga head personally.. but thats my opinion..


No, flyingnekomimi was not done with photoshop, it was done by inking directly onto a fresh piece of paper while the original drawing was underneath, on a lightbox. I used a ruler for the wings. I haven't used that technique again because there's too much loss of detail on the facial features, and the ink tends to smear.

The pose is actually from a crucifix, because I wanted him to look like he was suspended in air from his wings, which means his feet would have to be done differently before he could be modelled, but otherwise, yeah, it's a good pose. :) Here's an actual ready-to-be-modelled pose of a male character I designed for an mmorpg.

Quote:

a technique my storyboard teacher told me was to use a gray marker to sketch the drawing "fairly quickly" ... then use a thinner black marker to draw the lineart and give it definition... the grey marker can either act as shading or dissappear altogether depending on the shade you use... the defined lines sell your concept/storyboard... it makes it look like a picture done all at once.. a master of the art as it where..

there is a specific marker for this technique that has 3 (thats right.. 3) nibs on it ... darron or danon ?... i think they are 10-20 euro each... which is expensive for one marker.....

isamufullbody.jpg ...that has good shading.. thumbs up


Sounds like an interesting technique. Although again, we have the problem that any shading, anything other than clean lineart, interferes when you go to color the drawing. But if I knew I was doing, say, comic panels that would never be colored, that would probably be a great technique to use.

Quote:

can i suggest you try a different style to manga... for to challenge urself... if u are looking to challenge urself that is...
even just alter the formula's used in manga .. the eyebrow etiquette for eye's and that...


Well, I do think that manga is the most attractive of all art styles, that's why I work in it, but I would like to pick up a more gothic style, and a more sketchy colorful impressionistic/expressionstic style, those will be good projects to learn from, thank you for the suggestion. :)

Quote:

and the final thing i'll say is that i like fishmandiving.jpg + fishmanswimming over fishman.jpg ....definitely.. looks more preened and that.
You shouldnt feel the need to fill space ... clarity..
i think the rough edges from cutting and pasting it onto that photoshop background has a bearing on it to so i cant give a good opinion....
your fishman character looks like the same character from pose to pose which is most definitely a good thing...

geez.. b4 ya know it.. ya have written a page :o


Huh, interesting. Those ones lack the fish fins because I was only working on the anatomy there, which I thought made them look kind of unfinished and alien. Similarly, because the fishman is so vivid and full of motion he felt unbalanced to me without a background that also had some motion and color. It's the antialiasing that bothers you then? I could change that, go over all the skin edges with a black brush. Hmm I suppose that would make it look more professional/finished...

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