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TomX

Is the internet needed?

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Hi, I am planning on buying a new computer for my bedroom, Linux platformed. If I did get a computer in my room I wouldn't be able to have the internet because I would have no idea how to network Win2000 (this PC) and Suse (the PC I'm planning) and this PC (Win2000) has to have the internet or my Dad will not pay towards it. Therefore I think the best option is to just sacrifice the internet, as valuable and important it is to me at the moment, having privacy is probably better for me. What I'm wondering is whether I could learn Java fully without the internet, eg. Books, CDs? Or is the internet so indispensible that I'd either have to use this PC for the internet or learn how to network Suse & Windows? Thanks in Advance TomX [Edited by - TomX on September 21, 2004 2:22:21 PM]

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What I'd do is download as much stuff about Java before you lose the net. Starting points are obvious: the Java SDK, and the API documentation (hope you have broadband, that's 50MB+ already if I remember).

Next invaluable resource is the Java tutorial - this is a great introduction to Java written by Sun, also on the official Java site.

I personally found the Java tutorial to be of immeasureable help; I had books available that didn't help as much. And that was a good few years ago now, hopefully it's improved even more :D

But yeah. Once you have the Java docs, you can pretty much learn to do most simple stuff with just your own initiative. They're technical and not that detailed, but you can figure out what most things do if you browser through them and apply yourself. So you won't need the Internet to learn Java if you have those three things downloaded I'd say.

Overall it'll depend on what you want to use Java for. Do you want to learn the language? Implement a project?

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why don't you just network suse and windows. it's pretty easy. i assume you already have a DHCP server that's giving your win machine an ip address aka your DSL/Cable router? just slam a network hub between the win machine and the router and plug your suse box into the same HUD. if you don't have DHCP running on your LAN (aka you have just one IP address & your win box controlls the modem directly) there are 2 solutions:

1) buy a router like this one (this one has wireless as well but you can buy ones that don't for cheaper):
http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=33&scid=35&prid=601

2) install a second ethernet card on the win box and enable internet connection sharing through that card. the setup on the suse side is as simple as entering the correct ip address of that 2nd ethernet card, or just setting the win box to run a DHCP server on it (settable on the win machine)

learning to network those boxes shouldn't take more than a day provided you have the right hardware.

-me

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Quote:
Original post by davedx
Do you want to learn the language?


Yes, solely. I already have the docs, API and SDK on CD, unfortunately this PC (Win2000) doesn't even have a CDRW so I cannot make back-ups of the E-Books people have sent me, maybe I would need to upload them to a webserver and then hook up this Suse computer to the internet once to download them, then disconnect for life :(

Quote:
Win2k supports internet connection sharing and simply turns itself into a dhcp server / gateway. Set your SuSe box to DHCP and you're in.


Call me a newb but I had great difficulties networking Win98 and Win2000, I do not understand all the networking technical terms, I've never really touched on the hardware side of computers... yet.

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Original post by Palidine
why don't you just network suse and windows. it's pretty easy. i assume you already have a DHCP server that's giving your win machine an ip address aka your DSL/Cable router? just slam a network hub between the win machine and the router and plug your suse box into the same HUD. if you don't have DHCP running on your LAN (aka you have just one IP address & your win box controlls the modem directly) there are 2 solutions:

1) buy a router like this one (this one has wireless as well but you can buy ones that don't for cheaper):
http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=33&scid=35&prid=601

2) install a second ethernet card on the win box and enable internet connection sharing through that card. the setup on the suse side is as simple as entering the correct ip address of that 2nd ethernet card, or just setting the win box to run a DHCP server on it (settable on the win machine)

learning to network those boxes shouldn't take more than a day provided you have the right hardware.

-me


Hmm, sounds simple but I hear troubleshooting can be long-winded, do you know any good websites on cross platform networking?

Thanks in Advance
TomX

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there's really nothing special about cross platform networking. once you get outside the box onto the ethernet wire, all computers are exactly the same. if you can get another win box on the network, you can get a suse box on the same network. basically if you set up the DHCP server on the shared connection you literally just have to plug machines into it.

one simple but important caveat:

between the win box doing the connection sharing and whatever box you want to netwrok it with you need either a network hub or what's called a crossover cable. if you just plug a normal ethernet cable between the 2 boxes it will never work.

i don't know of any networking tutorials off the top of my head but i guarantee that [google] does. just remember there's nothing special about networking 2 different boxes if they run different operating systems.

-me

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Hmm, well according to the tutorials I found on Google my Win2000 machine is already set up as a DHCP server, maybe because I have broadband?

Anyway, so all I would need to is to plug it into a hub, then set up DHCP onto my Suse machine (when I get it) and plug that into the hub too, along with the cable with the internet connection?

Thanks in Advance
TomX

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If you only want to network two computers, just get a crossover ethernet cable. How are you connected to your ISP? If USB, it's easy; if you have to use Ethernet, then you'll need a router probably.

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I don't get it. Didn't you say your Dad was gonna keep the net on the windows PC? Just leech off of his when you need to study some docs. Print out a few pages and run back off to your room [lol]

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by TomX
Therefore I think the best option is to just sacrifice the internet, as valuable and important it is to me at the moment, having privacy is probably better for me.


Of course, if I was your dad I'd have questions about what you were doing on a system that was to be kept private from my net.

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Is the Linux needed?


Honestly, if you're that unsure of your networking skills with Linux, just install Win 2k so you have tons of nice happy GUI tools to set up the network. The internet is really useful, always has been.

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Quote:
Original post by davedx
If you only want to network two computers, just get a crossover ethernet cable. How are you connected to your ISP? If USB, it's easy; if you have to use Ethernet, then you'll need a router probably.


Unfortunately it is ethernet :(

Quote:
I don't get it. Didn't you say your Dad was gonna keep the net on the windows PC? Just leech off of his when you need to study some docs. Print out a few pages and run back off to your room


Hmm, well, I suppose I could do that BUT I have to contribute £4 ($8) per week for it so I wish I could just dump the internet, despite how much it helps me.

Quote:
Of course, if I was your dad I'd have questions about what you were doing on a system that was to be kept private from my net.


Nah, nothing like that, just learning, I just need piece and quite to be honest, the TV is near the PC and it's ALWAYS on.

Quote:
Is the Linux needed?


Well I do need a Linux-platformed computer some time in my life, why not now?

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Quote:
Original post by TomX
Quote:
I don't get it. Didn't you say your Dad was gonna keep the net on the windows PC? Just leech off of his when you need to study some docs. Print out a few pages and run back off to your room


Hmm, well, I suppose I could do that BUT I have to contribute £4 ($8) per week for it so I wish I could just dump the internet, despite how much it helps me.

Most providers offer per-hour charges. Where you only get charged for the time you spend on the net. Of course then you have to make sure no one abuses your connection. You would never wanna spend all night on a connection like that.

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I can't imagine learning programming without the internet man.. Google is invaluable. Spend the 40-50 bucks and get a simple linksys router, it takes all of 5 minutes to setup. as for the $8 a week you have to pitch in (I'm assuming that's half the bill)... that seems kinda high, but then I only know US prices for broadband...

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I tried learning C++ without the Internet, and it was very hard. I had an old laptop with no Ethernet port, and didn't want to buy a Ethernet card for it. This machine was an old Windows 95 machine I got to toy around with. I loaded up all I thought I would need on a CD, but as it turned out, about every other day I would have to go download more tutorials depending on what I was learning, and whenever I needed help, I would have to go back to a computer with the Internet. It can be a real pain without the Internet. I would reccomend that you organize your learning effort so that you have some schedule versus just learning what looks interesting to you, so that you don't have to get more tutorials all the time. If you are going to ditch the Net, try using lots of books. A lot of programming books come with a CD that has the basic stuff you will need. However, when you need a program update or if you ever need to register software, you will need the Internet. Basically, I would reccomend you try and keep the Net. It is a nightmare without it. Also, networking on Windows is easy. Knowing nothing about wireless networking, I set up an 802.11b network. Just read the manual.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Best advice for OP is simply to buy a crossover cable of suitable length, then two network cards, and turn on connection sharing on the win box.

Turning on connection sharing is as easy as right click your connection in start/connect to, select properties then look for connection sharing.

Really is that simple, and would only cose around £15.00 :)

Hyp007

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Quote:
Original post by TomX
Thanks for all the advice people, I've decided with this PC I will use Windows, despite how much I want to test Linux, the internet is much more important.


or you could dual boot the machine and get both on the same box...

-me

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