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Agreenknight

[web] PHP

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I heard php is being phased out, atleast that's what the local russian computer genius who worked went to college for computer science said. Is this true? JUST WANTED TO GET SOMEONE ELSE's OPINION. He's proficient in Java, and visual basic so he says. He's from Russia, so things might be quite different there. That's where he got his college degree. He's going to go to school in a larger city but is going to need to retake some classes.

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Well, I can't say too much about PHP except for it's extremely ugly . Alternatives ? I'm using Spyce, a Python based server-side scripting language. It's just like PHP but instead of a crippled C++ syntax, it uses the Python language directly.
Waiting for 'D Server Pages' though...

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No PHP is not going away.
The guy just hates PHP so he is saying that.
Tell him that his crack smoking days should end.
P.S.
PHP is not ugly, you just do not know how to use it correctly.
Why else would so many users be coding in PHP if it was so bad (plus Free).
Python Server Pages (PSP) is just a java shell to make it seem cool. You might as well do .jsp in that case (Plus easy to be hacked).
If you are going to code code in .jsp .asp or .php
Perl is old school, but still very powerful as well.

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Even if PHP is phased out (which I'd not heard about) it's popularity alone would ensure it lived on for several years to come. I can't imagine the millions of websites and servers suddenly ditching it for the next best thing (ASP.NET [grin]).

Besides, because PHP is open-sourced it would still live on in new incarnations even if the official PHP development group disbanded.

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<flame>

Quote:
Original post by microcyb
P.S.
PHP is not ugly, you just do not know how to use it correctly.
Why else would so many users be coding in PHP if it was so bad (plus Free).
Python Server Pages (PSP) is just a java shell to make it seem cool. You might as well do .jsp in that case (Plus easy to be hacked).
If you are going to code code in .jsp .asp or .php
Perl is old school, but still very powerful as well.


LOL... I don't know how to use it correctly. I know how to. But could you please tell me what for it has all that damn dollar signs ll over the place, why it uses -> as the member getter and why does it use a dot as its string concatenation operator. To confuse everyone who's trying to learn it and assumes it has C++ syntax. I knew a guy who's been playing around with PHP with some time and claimed, heh, was almost ready to kill me, claiming that the . is the same as -> in PHP... He was just wondering why his scripts wouldn't work. Not a nice approach for language learners.

Sorry, but I don't understand your rant about PSP and I don't know what does it have to do with Java. I never said I'm using PSP, so don't assume that all Python server-side scripting has to be done with PSP.

Anyway, DSP's gonna rock the place :>

</flame>


edit:
Quote:
Why else would so many users be coding in PHP if it was so bad (plus Free).


Because PHP is an established technology that has lots of documents about and lots of libraries made for (Python has more). Also, at the time when PHP emerged, there was no real alternative to it. Now there are, yet if everyone keeps saying 'PHP r0xxxx0rz', newbs will try to learn it to be on top / keep up with the others. But seriously, anyone who's ever done any real world coding in a language that's got syntax better than C++ will seek something other than PHP.

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Really, is that why you think PHP is ugly? Because you don't like the symbols they use for the syntax? :P

Hardly worth making a fuss of, is it?
No doubt, PHP isn't a particularly pretty language, but that's not because they use $'s in variable names. (Why is that so ugly anyway? It just makes it easier for you to see what's a variable and what's not)

There are plenty of alternatives though, so just use whatever you like. But PHP is hugely popular, so it's not going away any time soon.

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hmmm... enough if I say I'm a freak of nice syntax and doing that shift + 4 all the time drives me nuts. How about default behaviour for copy on assignment.
PHP has it's glitches that require a huge book and I don't like using that kind of a language. What about the pseudocode:

func()
{
return (get data from mysql)
}

this kind of a function once did crap on me. yeah, literally. didn't return the values as expected, but when changed to:

func()
{
$local = get data from mysql
return $local
}

worked as expected. now, what's an understandible language ? (no, I can't reproduce it. It happened long time ago to me and I almost destroyed the floor with my jaw when I analyzed that)


anyway, I'm not gonna start a flamewar here. This is probably one of the things like "Delphi sux" vs "C++ sux", etc. Just a matter of an opinion. I'm happy with a nice alternative to PHP and I know I could have done the same with PHP but an order of magnitude slower.

Agreenknight wanted someone else's opinion. Now he's got a very controversial one <g>

[Edited by - h3r3tic on September 20, 2004 6:22:47 PM]

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Quote:
Original post by microcyb
Python Server Pages (PSP) is just a java shell to make it seem cool. You might as well do .jsp in that case (Plus easy to be hacked).


You were doing so well until that point. PSP is nothing to do with Java. If anything it's closer to ASP.

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Php is a wonderful language for web development. It is very usable, and that is what makes it good. It is fast, and easy/rapid to develop in. It is not a C++ clone. It shares some familiar syntax and concepts, but it is it's own language. Java and C++ share many familiar functions and syntax, but they are obviously not the same language. Similarly you wouldn't say japanese and chinese are the same language even though share many words.

PHP will be around for awhile. With the recent release of PHP5 is another step in the right direction. It improves the weaknesses it had with OO development. PHP won't go away any time soon. You can't find a web host that doesn't support PHP; that is why people use it. Another reason is the wealth of open source libraries that are available. PEAR provides a lot of great extentions that are priceless. The DB abstraction layer is programmers gold. The smarty template engine is another great library.

As someone had mentioned earlier, the documentation sets the standard. Usually the biggest downfall with open source projects is the lack of documentation. The manual at PHP.net has everything you'll need. Very straight forward approach, with lots of user follow ups that close even the narrow gaps.

Like any language, you need to use it and really get to know it before you can learn to love it or hate it.

I hope this doesn't sound fanboyish, because that is not the case. I don't believe any one programming language is the be all end all. But I do feel that anyone who is truely interested in web development should at least become familiar with PHP. It is a strong leader in web development, and you would be doing yourself a favor in the long run because there is so much to learn from it right now.

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