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Gamespot Article on XNA and longhorn

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Umm... silencer-, where'd you come up with the idea that there is no fine tune targeting on a control for the xbox? It just takes getting used to, like it probably did when you started using the mouse. I could get multiple headshots in Halo, on people far away from each other, in under a couple of seconds. If that's not fine-tuned... I dunno what is.

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Agreed, but I probably should have added speed and control to fine-targetting prerequisites. I've played Halo a number of times, and know quite a few people who play it regularly; but I've never seen anyone come even remotely close to someone using a mouse. If you can claim you can swing back and forth and gain 4 kills of enemies surrounding you on all sides in under a half of a second, something quite feasible with a mouse, I'll gladly change my opinion.

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Quote:
Original post by DaemonMagus
Umm... silencer-, where'd you come up with the idea that there is no fine tune targeting on a control for the xbox? It just takes getting used to, like it probably did when you started using the mouse. I could get multiple headshots in Halo, on people far away from each other, in under a couple of seconds. If that's not fine-tuned... I dunno what is.


You don't know what it is, I'm afraid. Saying that you can get multiple headshots means nothing, because it doesn't indicate that you were actually aiming at the head, just that you were aiming close enough as far as the game was concerned. It's of course possible that you're so good with a gamepad that you could beat a mouse user of equivalent skill, but your example doesn't prove that. I have a feeling that most console fps are using a considerable amount of auto aim, because otherwise the average gamer would become very frustrated.

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Original post by Erik S. Andersson
You don't know what it is, I'm afraid. Saying that you can get multiple headshots means nothing, because it doesn't indicate that you were actually aiming at the head, just that you were aiming close enough as far as the game was concerned. It's of course possible that you're so good with a gamepad that you could beat a mouse user of equivalent skill, but your example doesn't prove that. I have a feeling that most console fps are using a considerable amount of auto aim, because otherwise the average gamer would become very frustrated.

That does bring it a bit more into light :)
There just isn't the same "feel" with controllers, which is one reason I never really have been a huge fan of console FPS games. However, I have seen people get quite good with them, so I won't deny the prospect of skill. But there is still a limit. Take this for example:
- Leading a target smoothly at a couple hundred yards and considering wind factor, such as in OFP. This would be impossible with a controller.
- Simple and raw speed and control, such as in any close-paced FPS game like UT2004. There is definately a limit to this with controllers, one reason why there aren't a whole lot of "amazing" or "spectacular" stunts done with them. Clearing out a room in a flash is an example of this.
- How about aiming for the left eye or right eye at a target a distance away?

I really wish I could explain it better, but I can't. I'm sure if someone did the math of say, the surface area a mouse/controller uses factored in with velocity it could be proven.

Hope this isn't too off-topic :)

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I rarely play Console shooters because of the controller. I've seen people who were able to aim pretty well using a joystick, but the majority of console users have auto-aim on. The mouse was designed to allow very fine or very fast movement. Joysticks, on the other hand, were designed for general directional input. For example, you can control the direction and the speed of your character using a joystick, something you can't do with a mouse. A mouse offers unparalleled accuracy at the cost of doing less (many games can be played with only a joystick and 4 buttons, few games can be played with only a mouse).

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Mice are definitely easier, but I was just trying to say that it is possible on a controller. And about auto-aim, I usually turn that off because it gets on my nerves. It ends up aiming at the wrong person, or in some games you'll aim at the guy when you're really trying to aim at the explosive barrel behind him.

One thing I love about controllers is having two analog thumbsticks. Controlling them both simultaneously, having yourself spin and move with such grace and accuracy... it's perfect. Using wasd for movement comes nowhere near the feel of a controller.

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Original post by (liquiddark)
Quote:
Original post by FeralOfEclecticWizard
I don't see how it would be any different. Everyone has the game previous to the party and .. plug in cables and away you go.

No ?

No. At least an hour of fucking around with IP addresses, routing, OS bullshit, installing, patching up to the same version and this is DOUBLY fun when certain patch versions are incompatible with certain configurations, which is more frequent than I could have imagined. Not even in the same UNIVERSE as console ease-of-use.


No no, I was not refering to PC vs Console for a lanparty layout, I was refering to PC w/Installeld game vs PC w/game totally on CDROM.

By and large though lan setup has not been all that bad in my *LIMITED* experience, fwiw.

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I've got one question that no-one seems to be wondering about; how is a PC with an x86 CPU and a segmented memory architecture and widely varied configuration ever going to be immediately and intimately compatible with the Xbox2 which is based on a different endian CPU (G5), instruction set etc, has a Unified memory architecture and has a set single target graphics system?

You'll be able to use the same controllers across them, yes i can see that, the current xbox controllers are basically USB with a different plug.
Some games will include the option to play from the disc, with only a light install; does no-one else remember when CD games frist came out and they all had three levels of installation? light=CD in use frequently, medium=only movies on CD, full=CD never used!

but i can't see an Xbox2 disc being dropped into a PC being anything other than ignored by the PC and vice-versa.

actually here's another question; why does everyone get the wrong idea about XNA? it's an API, it's not going to change the way games are made, or allow everything including your toaster to run a single game exe thats been developed for a specific platform.

Andy

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well, the major bulk of a game is assets, which dont need to be touched for either version (at worse you need some byte swaping in your loading routine on one of the platforms) so in theory, its just a simple matter of putting 2 versions of the code on the CD/DVD and letting the system pick the right one to run.

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You just need to come to a LAN party prepared. If you're planning on playing game X, make sure you have an assload of copies of a) the install disk and b) a disk with all patches and mods you need.

IP addresses were only a pain under win98, where it required many agonisingly long restarts.

Really, all your complaints are things I'm familiar with, but back in '99/00. Things are much better now. CDs are cheap and plentiful, and networking is much easier.

My real fear is this: gamepads for PCs. MS may try and push a "standard controller" for the PC, and it would be an X-Box-alike. If the PC needs a control peripheral, its a flightstick, not a gamepad. The keyboard is good enough for 90% of gamepad games, whereas the flightstick is needed for most vehicle/piloting games and isn't available. Plus, a gamepad is a two-handed affair, while a stick frees your left hand for keyboard work.

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