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Using the 5 senses as attributes

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I was thinking of ditching str,int etc as the prime attributes for character makeup. Instead i''d try and work out a way to use sight,smell,touch,taste and hearing as the attributes for a character. The player would use these attributes to work things out in the game like overhearing conversations or tasting ingredients or looking for things in the dark etc. Strength, intelligence would be secondary attributes that would be altered via implants. The 5 sences could also be altered via the use of drugs. And then atop this there would be skills and weapon use. I think this would help emphasis less combat and more dialog in the game although this was not the idea. What do you think would be the positive and negatives of this characterisation system? "So you're the one that designed that game are you?" *Gulp* "Umm, yeah"

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the senses are Perception, that is they are passive. so you forget half of the abilities of a being. You still need to express in some way the ability to Emit.
Of course, I am biased as I still think the Simulacres system is cool. you have an Action or Perception Mean. You combine it with a Composant (Body, Heart, Mind, Instincts), and you can even refine more by using other Energies, or Realms (Mineral, Vegetal, etc).

5 senses is nice as it would be based around something very symbolic. But it''s not very useful in itself. Of course, if you could make those 5 useful in a game, you would have something cool there, but I''d bet you''d end up as a puzzle game, rather than something more generalist.

youpla :-P

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It''s definitly not easy but he''s some thoughts off the top of my head:
Taste
- Would assist the character in not using drugs that could do harm.
- Detection of poisons
Smell
- Allow the character to predict danger
- Chemical aware
Hearing
- Gives the character balance
- Gives the player 3D sound
- Inititive in combat modifier
Sight
- Inititive in combat modifer
- More information about people you meet
Touch
- Accurate damage readings
- Allows the player to know what affects implants have on them.

That just some for now...

"So you're the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"

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Uh, maybe I wasn''t clear as usual. I don''t deny the value of your idea. I am just saying : "why would you focus so much on this little part of someone ?".
Yes, I agree it would be nice to increase the importance of the 5 senses in a game, as it would offer some very cool game possibilities (that you list there).
But why restrict yourself to only that ? What about the 6th sense ? What about the rest of the character ?
Or maybe you could keep this idea, and add an ''active'' side to each sense ?
Hearing / talking ?
Touch / Strength ?
Sight / Dexterity ?
Smell taste ?
It''s really from the top of my head ... I am jsut trying to show you that even though the idea is a good one, you shouldn''t just keep it on its own. Why exchange a limited system for another one ? Just because it''s a cooler one doesn''t seem enough justification for me.

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What these resolve to really depends on what types of gameplay you have in your game. But here''s some suggestions (limited to combat):

Hearing
-Detect Enemies On Level (maybe you can detect out in concentric
rings that decrease with distance)
-Define Detected Enemies (Uhhh... that''s a Dragon!!!)


Touch
-Vibrations? Tho'', this would just work out to be another enemy sense thing (for heavier enemies)
-Damage / Armor: If your damage model distinguishes between cutting or fire damage and all others, then you might have "SynthSkin Armor"
-Pressure Differential (Find hidden doors)


Taste
-Chemical composition
-Electromagnetic Detection (wet sensor )

Smell
-Second sight in darkness, blindfolded
-Atmosphere filter (breathe in poisonous environs)

Sight
-Detect Traps
-See Small Items (Inventory?)
-Light Amplification
-Wider field of view / perception (requires peripheral vision)


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

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That''s really cool Wavinator The better your smell the sooner you become aware of poisons in the air. I was thinking that hearing would probably be better for fighting semi/blind. But it doesn''t matter, that list you''ve made there is very good and very thought provoking too.

quote:
By ahw:
"why would you focus so much on this little part of someone ?".


It''s actually quite amazing that they are not common place on rpg''s these days. What''s a character without their senses? A robot is my answer

quote:

keep this idea, and add an ''active'' side to each sense ?


So the obvious route to working out how to do this is to look at ourselves i guess. We don''t think about using our senses though they are automated into our lives. So it''s probably time to rejudge to gameplay in order to provide a more interactive purpose the 5 s''s.

However, maybe i''m being a little short sighted. There are people who do deliberatly use there 5 senses manually (with a concious act behind them). People like detectives (all 5 s''s), manual labourers (touch and smell), doctors (sight and hearing), teachers and students (hearing), infantry (sight and hearing) etc etc.

So i guess that it makes sense (sorry about the pun) to make the skills in the game act as a way of allowing the player to deliberatly use there 5 senses. An implant doesn''t improve their skill, it just gives them a skill and the level the characters senses determine how good these skills are. It''s definity an option. This would allow eliminate the problem of working out if a skill is permanently learnt or part there of when an implant is removed.

Implant uses Sense.
No implant then no use of sense.
So no skill is usable.

It''s simple and easy for the player to understand which is good too. And for those who must know more then they can go online to the website and find out the in''s and out''s of this system (background info).

The senses can still have there own purposes as well just like Wavinator and i have been discussing. This is getting really good, the senses have a lot of purpose. COOL! Thank god this is starting to pull together at last.

I wonder if i could invent a new sense no ones heard of before, ah that might be biting off more than i can chew

"So you're the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"

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Hearing could also be used for Thieving skill''s e.g. Lock Pick, Sneaking around.

Sight could be used for just about everything. Especially battle.
You can''t hit what you can''t see. Sight = Accuracy

Just my 2Cents

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quote:
By DarkAngel16
Sight could be used for just about everything. Especially battle.
You can''t hit what you can''t see. Sight = Accuracy


I can''t explain why but there''s this little voice telling me to make sure that each sense has a balanced usage to each other. Probably because the player will be able to alter them from time to time and if there''s "One Major Sense" then this could make the game become 1 tracked. I makes sens.. *ahem*

"So you're the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"

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Guest Anonymous Poster
"What''s a character without their senses? A robot is my answer"

no, that actually happened to me. You know how when you''re asleep you aren''t aware of anything really? I woke up in the middle of the night but I didn''t regain my body for a while. I was just this disembodied mind, it was the most horrifying experience ever. I couldn''t see, I couldn''t feel, nothing. Just pure void. I would have screamed by I had no mouth or lungs. Then my body came back after a few seconds, the mere physical awareness of your own body is such a relief. There actually is a difference between having your eyes closed in a very dark room and having no eyes at all, even though both seem black.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Ever play Asheron''s Call. In it, each skill''s base stat was calculated based on your attributes plus however much training you have in it. Why not use this idea. Example: Lock Pick Base = 1/2 Dexterity + Touch ... Hunting = Sight + Hearing + Smell ... Detect Poison = Luck + Taste + 1/2 Smell. See what I''m saying.

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paul : ok, I am not sure where you are going with your implants, but it make me realise one thing. Most implants improve your perception. Larger bandwidth for sound perception, larger spectrum for sight, anti blinding/deafening filters (at as a buffer before the actual physical parts are damaged), skin captors, to enhance perception of heat, pH variations, humidity, UV levels, etc. Can be used to perceive through contact, various information on other people (how much they sweat, temperature, etc).
Taste enhancer (increase the perception of sweet/salt/acid/bitter... that''s all the taste sense does, really), combined with chemical analyser (through smell). With different chemical databases (become instantely a "nose" of the perfume industry, detect all the varieties of poison known to mankind, turn into a famous gourmet, a wine taster, etc )

As well, you say that there *could* be some sense dominating another... well, there is already. It just depends the person. For instance, I know that I am much more tactile than most people I know here in Ireland. Because in France we tend to have more phsyical contacts when talking, or whatever. But I must say I enjoy all my senses equally, because I *know* I might leave one behind if I didn''t do that.
For instance, do you recognise people by their scent/perfume ? (I know I do that for girls I *know* a bit )
Can you remember the texture of the skin of someone you really like ? Can you visualize the little details in a picture you really like, do you see the little offset printings when you look at a printed paper, are you fascinated when you watch a sunset, or the sky in general, at any time of the day or night ?
Do you keep alcohol in the mouth for a little while, just to smell it better, before swallowing ? Do you *enjoy* eating food ?

If you can answer yes to all those questions, then I guess I can say you are using your senses in a balanced way. But I honestly don''t think people bother that much. (Maybe I am just being arrogantly condescending here ... sorry if I sound like that). what I am saying is that it seems natural (realistic) to have some sense be more important than other. Especially when one is missing, it seems that other improve in compensation. Maybe you should study that ?

As for another sense, well ... I was hesitating putting it in as it is blindingly obvious : the sixth sense
Otherwise called instincts. Though with so much wetware, my definition of instincts seem to make it useless (the 6th sense).
Also you could expand on extra sensory perception, that is, psychic skills And that''s a whole new territory to go into, so I''ll leave you with my ideas above for now !

youpla :-P

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There could be a sixth sense. I was thinking of having it so if the character get too boosted up on implants then they start to loose touch with their senses. Maybe this would not be a good idea. But if there was a sixth sense in the game then the player could loose this when their character surpasses a level of installed implants because they have become less human and more robotic.

quote:

Ever play Asheron''s Call. In it, each skill''s base stat was calculated based on your attributes plus however much training you have in it. Why not use this idea. Example: Lock Pick Base = 1/2 Dexterity + Touch ... Hunting = Sight + Hearing + Smell ... Detect Poison = Luck + Taste + 1/2 Smell. See what I''m saying.


No i havn''t played this game but i have considered the system that you''ve suposed in my earlier posts. It won''t be this simple though. Although it might end up being simple depending on the amount of processor juice i get left with. I''m hoping on having a dynamic energy scale that will fluctuate depending on what the character does. The energy level will scale the characters attributes and senses. This way the player will have to think about their character instead of just using it like a toy doll. The character will have it''s own feedback to the player.


"So you're the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"

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Paul : there is a similar idea in Cyberpunk 2020. Basically, the more you get wired with implants, the less human you are. And what is the difference between the android and the human ? The instincts hence the lack of sixth sense for an android. Of course, the android, with all his captors, and stuff is already quite boosted, but it makes a balance. A human can still beat a machine, thanks to his humanity ... see the movie Solo for a nice example ("what do you call lying ? You mean I can fake to be hurt to distract him ? But we cyborgs don''t do that !")
Or the mad cyberpriest in Johnny Mnemonic.

youpla :-P

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With the Cyberpunk thing...Shadowrun does something similar.
Basically you are given a set number(6 in the game) which
is considered your ''essence'' or how much of your astral signiture(read:spirit) is still intact. You can modify your body to a point, but implants drop it down depending on how drastic they are, and when you reach zero there is no astral signiture left(read:YOU DIE).Of course...then there is cybermancy....but thats a little unbalancing in a game.
-Run_The_Shadows
-Run_The_Shadows@excite.com

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