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What do you think of an AI contest?

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hi guys! Some time ago, i was toying around a new game, and it turned out that making the AI was a real challenge. I tried some simple stuff but the results were pretty poor and i feel there is much potential on developping AI. So i thought, it would be even more interesting to focus only on the AI and make a contest out of it! ...As you can see, it is very vague now. On the other hand, i can't say more so that the contest could take place "correctly", unvailing the details to everyone at the same time. The only thing i can say now is that the programming language would be java, that the challenge has much potential and can be implemented with a variety of techniques. ...And that it's not that easy. ...And the AIs will compete against each other. ...It'll be fun, you'll see! If there is enough people wanting to take part of such a contest, then i'll make a small framework to build the AI on the top of it and to visualize how it performs or "quick-testing" it. Then start dates and deadlines will be set and details unveiled. What do you think of this? Would you want to take part? PS: I promise it'll be interesting PPS: You surely noticed this is a new profile, it's because my old one would give hints about the challenge.

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You know, secondary profiles are looked down upon... MisterX!!!

But yeah, something like the GD:Arena contest would be cool. So yes, I'd like to take part.

Prizes anyone?

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a language had to be chosen, since java is simple and productive i think it's a good choice.
And sorry for the prizes, i have none, it would be just for the love of contests! ;) (Except a sponsor comes in, but i really doubt of it)

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A language should never been chosen out of fairness for a contest unless that is the purpose. You lay out the rules and guidelines, but you can't tell people they have to use Java, unless it's a "Java AI Contest"

People should be able to use whatever language they are most productive with. Saying Java is most productive is misleading because it is quite the opposite if the developer has never used Java, and now has to learn it just to enter.

~Graham

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Well, if he has a Java-specific interface he wants the AI to go through, then I don't know what else he's gonna do.

But otherwise, heck, if you could make it open language and support VB6 you all will be buttered toast. But Java? Fair game. [razz]

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I thought some of you may be interested in the 20-line javascript programming contest over at Ozone Asylum this month, as the topic is A.I.

I'll be entering, so if anyone else fancies it, jump on in. Read more in the DHTML/JS forum here:

http://www.ozoneasylum.com/7808

It's all fun thing - the winner gets to choose the topic for the next month's competition. Nothing too serious ;o)

Hope to see some of you there!

Dan

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hey!

seeing as this has turned into a competition promotin' free-for-all... why don't you hop on over to ai-junkie and help us settle on a theme for the next AI programming competition. ;)

see this thread:


There'll even be prizes! Yee haw!

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Guest Anonymous Poster
If you want to save a ton of time, there are quite a few frameworks for AI competitons already set up. Off the top of my head I'm aware of two which IBM created as plugins for Eclipse (an IDE, usually associated with Java). I think both were specifically designed for facilitating an AI programming contest.

Code Rally - write an AI for a 2d car race
http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/coderally

Code Ruler - write an AI for a simple empire building game
http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/coderuler

I played around with Code Ruler and had a lot of fun.

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Why don't you simply set up some webserver and declare the post/get to some document on it as the interface for all participants. The environment state is feed into AI via the returning page (XML). So everyone can make use the language what the whish to use. I wouldn't take part if I had to choose java, no matter if IBM, SUN or what else ... but you did not tell it's a contest for java but a contest for AI, didn't you?

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Quote:
Original post by Sebastian Gruber
Why don't you simply set up some webserver and declare the post/get to some document on it as the interface for all participants. The environment state is feed into AI via the returning page (XML). So everyone can make use the language what the whish to use. I wouldn't take part if I had to choose java, no matter if IBM, SUN or what else ... but you did not tell it's a contest for java but a contest for AI, didn't you?


This would seem fair until I create an AI agent which forwards all of the information to my distributed network with 3,000 hosts in order to have more processing power to determine the best choice to make. Tying this kind of contest to a specific language is the best way to do it.

Besides; to a computer scientist the limitation of language is not a real limitation; so long as it is a reasonably robust language (and no one can argue that Java is not), then you should be able to accomplish everything you need with only a trivial investment of time. This is especially the case if you know C++ or C#, both of which have similar syntax. The differences exist, but they are nothing that can't be overcome in a weekend of studying.

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i think Java is OK, because with java you can protect it against hacking without having to setup the server, etc (and server idea is bad because not everyone have equal processing power).
Also, really many AI contest arenas is avaliable. I even have one installed on my PC.

[google]

[google]

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Guest Anonymous Poster
GDNet tried this before with some robot AI contest but it wasn't very good.

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Quote:
Original post by ChaoticCanuck
Quote:
Original post by Sebastian Gruber
Why don't you simply set up some webserver and declare the post/get to some document on it as the interface for all participants. The environment state is feed into AI via the returning page (XML). So everyone can make use the language what the whish to use. I wouldn't take part if I had to choose java, no matter if IBM, SUN or what else ... but you did not tell it's a contest for java but a contest for AI, didn't you?


This would seem fair until I create an AI agent which forwards all of the information to my distributed network with 3,000 hosts in order to have more processing power to determine the best choice to make. Tying this kind of contest to a specific language is the best way to do it.

Besides; to a computer scientist the limitation of language is not a real limitation; so long as it is a reasonably robust language (and no one can argue that Java is not), then you should be able to accomplish everything you need with only a trivial investment of time. This is especially the case if you know C++ or C#, both of which have similar syntax. The differences exist, but they are nothing that can't be overcome in a weekend of studying.


Well, if you are going to build a good interference machine that can solve a number of rules sets in a reasonable time in java, then I will be the first bying it ;-)

But apart from this about limitation of languages, I do not understand how you get from the use of 3000 distibuted computers, where it is not clear to me, how you come to the conclusion to assume such number from less 20 posters to this thread. It is absolut unclear to me, how this results in a conclusion, that for this tying to one language is the best solution. Best solution in what? In networking? In distribution?
I also do not understand what the knownledge of some specific langauge leads to ease of use of some different language, certain problems are not resonably solveable with?!
From my little opinion this is certainly not done with a weekend studying! Or can you make any proof of such assumption?!

Well, I am much too simple person for any such artistic stuff anyway, since I am already 41 and a little slow in thinking sometimes.

But all of your answer did not help in what others already have questioned... >> How can such a contest make sure anyone can participate in it no matter what language might be used?
Because some already thought about if it could be possible to make use of lisp, prolog, or whatever else prefered for the contest...
And my posting was one of the possible answers for this questioning, regardless of if you personally would prefer this or not.

But perhaps you might wish to provide some better solution in this sense?

[Edited by - Sebastian Gruber on October 13, 2004 6:56:05 PM]

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Apart from my latest posting above, the cheating question is a good one. But since the challange is not defined so far, there are many, that humans can not solve because of complexity but are also difficult to solve for AI.

So I get to the point to ask the very questions...

* What is going to be solved by some AI in the contest?
* And how many participants are expected to be in the contest?
* Are the AI's competing with each other?
* Or do they soupposed to solve something any better than other AI's but on their own?
* If they are competing with each other, are there only two competing at a time or all together at the same time?

Perhaps there are some more questions ... ;o)

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by BillyRayPreachersSon
I agree - I don't think it should be a language-specific competition.

Just my £0.02 worth ;o)

Dan


Well, personally, I don't think it should be a *platform-specific* competition, which narrows down the options considerably, and makes java a definite front-runner whatever happens.

:P

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Sebastian Gruber
I wouldn't take part if I had to choose java, no matter if IBM, SUN or what else ... but you did not tell it's a contest for java but a contest for AI, didn't you?


But the same is true whatever language is picked - people won't enter if it isn't using their main language(s) - so that hardly matters now, does it?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Sebastian Gruber
Well, if you are going to build a good interference machine that can solve a number of rules sets in a reasonable time in java, then I will be the first bying it ;-)


(assuming you mean "inference" engine)

I've got one. How much are you prepared to spend? This is embedded in a commercial product and there's a division in the development team as to whether it's worth cutting it out and selling it on it's own.

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You are right Anonymous Poster, I was false in spelling and didn't notice that at this late hours (gmt+1)... :-/

My fist posting to this thread was following the idea that anyone might be able to participate no matter what language or architecture might be used. My comment about java at this time was all thought to be a provocative comment in this direction.
I personally would prefer else, but do not mind others to use what ever they might wish for a contest, if it is upcoming ever anyway?!

The question of cheating is from my little opinion more one of the type of challange, and for this not much an argument not to allow people using their computer at home feeding some environment/arena in the internet.
But sadly it didn't get that far with the discuss right now... instead it got more sort of the endless 'what is the best language' thing I guess...

It's nice you have various source lying around, but actually I already have what I need right now and can write myself most stuff I might want to have in addition... But thank you anyway. Well, of course I would give my 2 cents for it, as I said I would buy it, but do not have a need for such right now. ;o)

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