"If CS does not include calculus and linear algebra, you certainly will need to learn some additional math."
That's highly unlikely that you will not find calculus and Linear Algebra courses in a CS program in any University or in a college for that matter. All institutions, i believe have basic courses if not advance courses on both calculus and algebra. For me calculus was mandatory course in the first of my CS program.
Now, to answer you question on whether you should go CS or Math and Physics, its all depends on what you want to do in you future. If you love to program and would want to get into IT industry as programmer, analyst or whatever, i would suggest go with CS. Or do what i did, Major in CS and Minor in Math.
Math is essential for CS. You will notice all good universities and colleges require excellent grades in high school Math courses for you to apply to their CS programs.
[Edited by - StrikerNR on October 9, 2004 5:46:56 PM]
Is Computer Science even needed?
Quote:Also, let me mention how despite being 16, I have no idea what Calculus is :) It's not on any of the syllabus' as far as I'm aware.
I guess you're just starting your AS-Levels this year in which case calculus will appear in maths pretty soon [smile].
Assuming you are in a 6th form studying for AS-Levels leading on to A2s I've heard that the Computer Science AS/A2-Level isn't really anything like the computer science you'd do at university and I dunno how useful it'd actually be for programming. Doing maths on the other hand is (IMO) pretty essential, dropping it to do computer science instead would probably be a bad move. Find out what exam board you'd be doing it with and take a look at the sylabus, you could even post a link here if you want advice on whether it would actually teach you anything useful.
Oh for you non UK people here college generally refers to post 16 education (i.e. between the ages of 16-18) and not to university.
In my old school, Computer Science was a program in the department of Mathematical Sciences, which correctly expresses the relationship between CS and Math.
That said, the sort of classes you're talking about have little to no bearing on your being a competent programmer. When you say college, we Americans think "university." In university, I'd recommend computer science if it isn't a hobby for you. Otherwise, I'd recommend math. Why? Math is less demanding (in terms of stupid projects and the like), meaning you can have a robust social life, program games or whatever on the side, and still maintain a perfect grade point average. Since computing is a hobby for you in this hypothetical, you'd read obsessively and learn about operating systems, compilers and so forth on your own.
Best of all, you could take CS classes that interest you. Even though many of those classes have prerequisites, professors have discretion to allow you into the class - or you can simply audit (take it without a letter grade assigned).
If I knew then what I know now, I'd do it something like that. Not that I have any regrets; I just think I could have made it even better.
That said, the sort of classes you're talking about have little to no bearing on your being a competent programmer. When you say college, we Americans think "university." In university, I'd recommend computer science if it isn't a hobby for you. Otherwise, I'd recommend math. Why? Math is less demanding (in terms of stupid projects and the like), meaning you can have a robust social life, program games or whatever on the side, and still maintain a perfect grade point average. Since computing is a hobby for you in this hypothetical, you'd read obsessively and learn about operating systems, compilers and so forth on your own.
Best of all, you could take CS classes that interest you. Even though many of those classes have prerequisites, professors have discretion to allow you into the class - or you can simply audit (take it without a letter grade assigned).
If I knew then what I know now, I'd do it something like that. Not that I have any regrets; I just think I could have made it even better.
As far as I know, if you do a CS degree, there's nothing stopping you form doing maths papers for a lot of your optional ones. I took Elementary Linear Algebra, then Linear Algebra, then Algebra. It was great. Got top marks too, but that's besides the point.
any good CS program should have you taking upto multivariable calculus (usually the third calc cours), linear algebra, statistics, and something involving formalized proofs. It should also include atleast two levels of physics, as well as chemistry to be well rounded.
Let's imagine I get through college perfectly with AAA in Maths, Computing and Physics. I then take Mathematics in University whilst learning how to program during my free time. During this I make a few applications. I then apply for a job with my maths skill and portfolio of applications, why would an interviewer not employ me?
Just because you get a 4.0 in college doesn't mean you'll get a job. People like to work with nice people, maybe they don't like your personality, then they won't hire you.
Plus, most employers want to see some sort of specialization. Graphics, AI, sound, etc. You can't just say, "Yeah, I learned how to program" and expect to get a job.
16 and in college? Is this like a running start program?
Not sure if anyone got this, but in the UK and New Zealand (and other places)
College = University
High School = College
So when we take about college courses, we are talking about High School courses.
I think it is important to do a little cs in High School (to get the feel) but I know I am much better off having done a lot of maths.
In University it seems that the maths in cs degrees are way over the top. I mean mathematically proving an algorithm is nuts - it takes 20 times longer than just getting someone else to just have a look through it. If you are programming a power plant then maybe it is okay, but I'm not going to do that. And how do you 'prove' the use of an api? Most of the programming I do is about the interaction of objects, not optimised C functions.
Just my 2 cents.
College = University
High School = College
So when we take about college courses, we are talking about High School courses.
I think it is important to do a little cs in High School (to get the feel) but I know I am much better off having done a lot of maths.
In University it seems that the maths in cs degrees are way over the top. I mean mathematically proving an algorithm is nuts - it takes 20 times longer than just getting someone else to just have a look through it. If you are programming a power plant then maybe it is okay, but I'm not going to do that. And how do you 'prove' the use of an api? Most of the programming I do is about the interaction of objects, not optimised C functions.
Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for all the feedback people :)
I'm sorry for not explaining the UK education system, I hope this is something you will understand:
Age______UK_________US
<16__High School__School?
16-18 _College___High School?
18+_____Uni________College?
Well I'm currently 16 studying Maths, Computing and Business Studies (debating whether or not I want to change to Physics) and I'm already trying to decide what I should study if I get into 18+ education (UK: University; US: College), either Computer Science or Maths.
Computer Science
Pro: Puts me in good position for most computing jobs;
Interesting.
Con: I have no way to express mathematical ability to employers
Will probably have studied much of what I will be learning, such as basics of Java, basic networks etc.
Maths
Pro: Shows I'm mathematically talented;
Very interesting;
Gives me an alternative method for entering programming industry.
Con: Limits me to fewer computing jobs incase programming ends up not being my thing (I'd hopefully get a job in Cryptography or AI)
I wouldn't have a computer science degree to show employees.
I hope that clears it up a bit.
Thanks in Advance
TomX
I'm sorry for not explaining the UK education system, I hope this is something you will understand:
Age______UK_________US
<16__High School__School?
16-18 _College___High School?
18+_____Uni________College?
Well I'm currently 16 studying Maths, Computing and Business Studies (debating whether or not I want to change to Physics) and I'm already trying to decide what I should study if I get into 18+ education (UK: University; US: College), either Computer Science or Maths.
Computer Science
Pro: Puts me in good position for most computing jobs;
Interesting.
Con: I have no way to express mathematical ability to employers
Will probably have studied much of what I will be learning, such as basics of Java, basic networks etc.
Maths
Pro: Shows I'm mathematically talented;
Very interesting;
Gives me an alternative method for entering programming industry.
Con: Limits me to fewer computing jobs incase programming ends up not being my thing (I'd hopefully get a job in Cryptography or AI)
I wouldn't have a computer science degree to show employees.
I hope that clears it up a bit.
Thanks in Advance
TomX
Do they have something analogous the major/minor system in the UK? I.e. you get a degree in your primary subject area (major), but you also take a certain number of classes in a secondary subject (minor) that also shows up formally on your degree when you graduate.
Quote:Original post by Zipster
Do they have something analogous the major/minor system in the UK? I.e. you get a degree in your primary subject area (major), but you also take a certain number of classes in a secondary subject (minor) that also shows up formally on your degree when you graduate.
Yes, they're called 'with' courses. So you'll see them described in uni prospectuses as "Computer Science with Mathematics". I don't remember the exact split but its something like a 70%/30% split.
Theres also 'and' courses - "Computer Science and Mathematics" which is a 50/50 split.
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