There are both of these courses at the colleges I'm interested in:
Computer Science with Mathematics
Mathematics, Computing and Statistics
Out of the two above I'd chose Computer Science with Mathematics as I dislike Statistics. However, wouldn't a Comptuer Science with Mathematics course teach you the basics of each rather than the full course Computer Science would teach.
I'm so undecided still :(
Is Computer Science even needed?
Quote:Original post by TomX
Maths
(...)
Con: Limits me to fewer computing jobs incase programming ends up not being my thing (I'd hopefully get a job in Cryptography or AI)
I wouldn't have a computer science degree to show employees.
Yes that´s partly right but a math degree also leaves the possibility to get a job in something completly different than computing.
I'm have been thinking about the same problem a bit now and think I will go for math with CS. That is because it leaves more roads open if I get tired of programming or the computing industry takes an unexpected twist.
Author
Another possibility is to do something like:
(Computer Science with Mathematics) or (Mathematics)
And
(Advanced Computer Science) or (Mathematical Logic & The Theory of Computation)
Computer Science with Mathematics:
The BSc (Hons) in Computer Science and Mathematics programme allows you to study the role of mathematics in computing and the application of computing in mathematics. As a graduate you will have the ability to design and implement a programming task of significant size, and a knowledge and understanding of the basic ideas of mathematics, including the concepts of rigorous argument, formal proof, and the power of abstract formulation of problems.
Mathematics: The four-year MMath (Hons) in Mathematics will be of particular interest if you hope to become a professional mathematician. It shares the first two years of study with the three-year BSc(Hons) Mathematics degree but has its own third and fourth-year options. A final decision about which degree you do is made at the end of the second year, dependent on your examination results.
Advanced Computer Science: The MSc in Advanced Computer Science is a high quality Masters course. It draws upon the international research reputation and the excellent teaching quality and facilities of the Computer Science Department, and also its industrial links, to provide a broadly based advanced course at a level beyond that of undergraduate degrees. It combines a very wide range of taught modules, with a research project undertaken in one of the many research areas of the Department, or with industrial partners.
Mathematical Logic & The Theory of Computation: Historically mathematical logic arose from a consideration of philosophical questions arising from the foundations of mathematics. More recently however this field has become the branch of mathematics which in broad scope is closest to providing the mathematical requirements of information technology. Wherever fundamental problems present themselves, be it in computational linguistics, in cryptography, in artificial intelligence, or in program verification, such problems can often only be properly understood by using the concepts and methods of mathematical logic.
Sorry, the big amount of text :)
(Computer Science with Mathematics) or (Mathematics)
And
(Advanced Computer Science) or (Mathematical Logic & The Theory of Computation)
Computer Science with Mathematics:
The BSc (Hons) in Computer Science and Mathematics programme allows you to study the role of mathematics in computing and the application of computing in mathematics. As a graduate you will have the ability to design and implement a programming task of significant size, and a knowledge and understanding of the basic ideas of mathematics, including the concepts of rigorous argument, formal proof, and the power of abstract formulation of problems.
Mathematics: The four-year MMath (Hons) in Mathematics will be of particular interest if you hope to become a professional mathematician. It shares the first two years of study with the three-year BSc(Hons) Mathematics degree but has its own third and fourth-year options. A final decision about which degree you do is made at the end of the second year, dependent on your examination results.
Advanced Computer Science: The MSc in Advanced Computer Science is a high quality Masters course. It draws upon the international research reputation and the excellent teaching quality and facilities of the Computer Science Department, and also its industrial links, to provide a broadly based advanced course at a level beyond that of undergraduate degrees. It combines a very wide range of taught modules, with a research project undertaken in one of the many research areas of the Department, or with industrial partners.
Mathematical Logic & The Theory of Computation: Historically mathematical logic arose from a consideration of philosophical questions arising from the foundations of mathematics. More recently however this field has become the branch of mathematics which in broad scope is closest to providing the mathematical requirements of information technology. Wherever fundamental problems present themselves, be it in computational linguistics, in cryptography, in artificial intelligence, or in program verification, such problems can often only be properly understood by using the concepts and methods of mathematical logic.
Sorry, the big amount of text :)
It seems pretty clear your interest is in programming so computer science would make the most sense. Your interest in physics and mathematics seems secondary to that.
A level computer science is pretty much useless in the UK if you're planning to go into a programming career - it's very basic stuff and usually outdated and taught by teachers who have no real knowledge of the subject. If you want to get into programming take Maths, Physics and if it's available maybe a 'Further Maths' course (that's what they called it when I was at school, don't know if you have something similar). Take almost anything else rather than Computer Science - pick something completely different that you've enjoyed or are interested in - English, History, Geography, Psychology, Art or something. I'd suggest picking something where you'll meet lots of girls as you won't see any again once you start doing Computer Science [grin]
When it comes to picking a university degree, I think a 50/50 Maths / Computer Science degree is a good choice. You can never know too much maths.
I started out doing Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Computer Science at A level but after a couple of lessons realised that Computer Science was a complete waste of time and switched to English. After a couple of weeks I decided I was too lazy to do 4 A levels and dropped further maths (in retrospect I probably should have stuck with it - it would have made the first term of university easier).
In my first year at university I did a 50 / 50 split of Computer Science and Natural Sciences which meant I spent half my time doing CompSci lectures and the other half split between maths and physics. When it came to choosing subjects for the second year I was getting pretty bored of computer science and despairing at the lack of women so I switched to full time Natural Sciences and took Physics, History and Philosophy of Science and Experimental Psychology. I got pretty interested in the Psychology and took that in my third year so my degree was in Experimental Psychology.
When I started looking for jobs I played up the Computer Science part of the course and demonstrated the knowledge I'd picked up on my own and didn't have much trouble landing a game programming job (though I had a lucky break getting my first job interview).
The moral of the story is not to get too hung up on what subjects you choose. As long as you're doing something scientific / mathematical / technical and build up your programming knowledge in your own time you don't need to do a Computer Science degree to get a programming job. In fact many places now prefer someone with a Maths or Physics degree on the basis that it's easier to 'pick up' programming than it is to pick up a solid mathematical background. That's not to say Computer Science is not a worthwhile degree - a good course will teach you a lot of valuable material - but it's by no means essential to a programming career.
When it comes to picking a university degree, I think a 50/50 Maths / Computer Science degree is a good choice. You can never know too much maths.
I started out doing Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Computer Science at A level but after a couple of lessons realised that Computer Science was a complete waste of time and switched to English. After a couple of weeks I decided I was too lazy to do 4 A levels and dropped further maths (in retrospect I probably should have stuck with it - it would have made the first term of university easier).
In my first year at university I did a 50 / 50 split of Computer Science and Natural Sciences which meant I spent half my time doing CompSci lectures and the other half split between maths and physics. When it came to choosing subjects for the second year I was getting pretty bored of computer science and despairing at the lack of women so I switched to full time Natural Sciences and took Physics, History and Philosophy of Science and Experimental Psychology. I got pretty interested in the Psychology and took that in my third year so my degree was in Experimental Psychology.
When I started looking for jobs I played up the Computer Science part of the course and demonstrated the knowledge I'd picked up on my own and didn't have much trouble landing a game programming job (though I had a lucky break getting my first job interview).
The moral of the story is not to get too hung up on what subjects you choose. As long as you're doing something scientific / mathematical / technical and build up your programming knowledge in your own time you don't need to do a Computer Science degree to get a programming job. In fact many places now prefer someone with a Maths or Physics degree on the basis that it's easier to 'pick up' programming than it is to pick up a solid mathematical background. That's not to say Computer Science is not a worthwhile degree - a good course will teach you a lot of valuable material - but it's by no means essential to a programming career.
Hi TomX,
I've just graduated from Aston University (Birmingham, UK) - I took the CS course because I'm interested in software engineering.
My advice - take a REALLY good look at the uni prospectus, web page, and if you're really worried about choosing the correct course, pop in to the CS and maths departments of the university (or contact them via telephone/email) and request some more detailed course information. Take a good look at what the uni's courses involve & include before you get there.
Aston's CS course was too broad, too basic (no maths or computer experience required), and seemed to mass produce IT graduates rather than computer scientists...
...so I had lots of time to play half life and baldur's gate 2, and I still got a 1st. :)
Take a good look at what you want from the course, and get some detailed information before you dedicate yourself to three years of study.
Hope that helps - good luck! :)
I've just graduated from Aston University (Birmingham, UK) - I took the CS course because I'm interested in software engineering.
My advice - take a REALLY good look at the uni prospectus, web page, and if you're really worried about choosing the correct course, pop in to the CS and maths departments of the university (or contact them via telephone/email) and request some more detailed course information. Take a good look at what the uni's courses involve & include before you get there.
Aston's CS course was too broad, too basic (no maths or computer experience required), and seemed to mass produce IT graduates rather than computer scientists...
...so I had lots of time to play half life and baldur's gate 2, and I still got a 1st. :)
Take a good look at what you want from the course, and get some detailed information before you dedicate yourself to three years of study.
Hope that helps - good luck! :)
Author
Thanks for all the feedback again.
The problem with me choosing subjects other than Computing including Further Maths is that I am not eliable for them, as I didn't do too well (crap) in my GCSE's I was only able to take 4 A Levels, one of these not being Further Maths as I never got a A in GCSE Maths. What I intend to do is Maths, Computing and Physics, if I could do another subject it would be Further Maths but I don't think I'd be allowed to take this despite my sucess in mathematics in discrete maths so far.
This means I'm stuck with Maths, Computing and Physics, that's providing I can get onto Physics after dropping Business Studies. I will try to persuade my teacher into letting me take Further Maths as Maths is my main priority.
As for University, if I get in, I would probably take Computer Science with Mathematics undergraduate and then Mathematical Logic & The Theory of Computation for post graduation
Thanks in Advance
TomX
The problem with me choosing subjects other than Computing including Further Maths is that I am not eliable for them, as I didn't do too well (crap) in my GCSE's I was only able to take 4 A Levels, one of these not being Further Maths as I never got a A in GCSE Maths. What I intend to do is Maths, Computing and Physics, if I could do another subject it would be Further Maths but I don't think I'd be allowed to take this despite my sucess in mathematics in discrete maths so far.
This means I'm stuck with Maths, Computing and Physics, that's providing I can get onto Physics after dropping Business Studies. I will try to persuade my teacher into letting me take Further Maths as Maths is my main priority.
As for University, if I get in, I would probably take Computer Science with Mathematics undergraduate and then Mathematical Logic & The Theory of Computation for post graduation
Thanks in Advance
TomX
I had the same dilemma 15 years ago. I chose the maths route. Its more interesting, you meet more varied people than on a CS course, and its harder. Its also less likely to go out of date and have better teachers. Maths graduates are also rarer than CS grads, which is important too.
There's nothing better than a maths course to teach you how to think logically and to solve problems. All the computer stuff can easily be picked up in your spare time. I learnt C programming on an Employment Training course after university, and C++ after having a job as a C programmer for 5 years.
There's nothing better than a maths course to teach you how to think logically and to solve problems. All the computer stuff can easily be picked up in your spare time. I learnt C programming on an Employment Training course after university, and C++ after having a job as a C programmer for 5 years.
I have to hire Software Engineers as part of my job - although not SEs for the game industry we still require excellent software development skills in C++/Java.
Before I was responsible for recruitment in my team they used to consider graduates of many disciplines, as long as they showed the technical skills required for the relevant post (usually measured in a test and technical questions in the interview). The problem was that although these guys knew the languages and could program, they didn't always have the foundations in things like Data Structures, Patterns, lifecycle, concurrency etc And these 'holes' in their knowledge would surface much later. My remit was to build the technical level of the team up - and part of this involved recruitment. Although I haven't cast this in stone we now concentrate mainly on Computer Science and Software Engineering graduates for interviews. This has helped improve the technical level of the team enormously.
However as I said nothing is cast in stone, I still interview people with other degrees (mainly Physics, Maths etc) and have just hired someone with a Physics background (as people with other declines bring other important skills to a team - it's a balance).
So in answer to the original question I would say that Computer Science, at Degree level, is not redundant and is a very good course to study if you're sure you want to move into a Computing related industry. If it helps I did CS (in the UK) and I'm glad - I'm always falling back on background topics I studied which I would never have known about (even through programming in my own time - as they're not always programming specific) - and I graduated 8 years ago!!
Before I was responsible for recruitment in my team they used to consider graduates of many disciplines, as long as they showed the technical skills required for the relevant post (usually measured in a test and technical questions in the interview). The problem was that although these guys knew the languages and could program, they didn't always have the foundations in things like Data Structures, Patterns, lifecycle, concurrency etc And these 'holes' in their knowledge would surface much later. My remit was to build the technical level of the team up - and part of this involved recruitment. Although I haven't cast this in stone we now concentrate mainly on Computer Science and Software Engineering graduates for interviews. This has helped improve the technical level of the team enormously.
However as I said nothing is cast in stone, I still interview people with other degrees (mainly Physics, Maths etc) and have just hired someone with a Physics background (as people with other declines bring other important skills to a team - it's a balance).
So in answer to the original question I would say that Computer Science, at Degree level, is not redundant and is a very good course to study if you're sure you want to move into a Computing related industry. If it helps I did CS (in the UK) and I'm glad - I'm always falling back on background topics I studied which I would never have known about (even through programming in my own time - as they're not always programming specific) - and I graduated 8 years ago!!
Author
Lots of relevant feedback guys thanks :)
Here's an update on my situation, today I dropped Business Studies for Further Maths (well it's going to be decided tomorrow, my current maths teacher has said he approves but it's down to some more teachers - fingers crossed) so now I'm studying Maths, Further Maths and Computing.
Due to the nature of the Further Maths course I am having to be doing 3 Maths classes per day until christmas, I am not bothered, in fact I'm quite looking forward to that.
This means I couldn't possibly take another subject (namely Physics) until after Christmas, however, by that time it is too late. My only other alternative is to take Physics as a 4th Subject in the second year, this will mean I will be doing Maths, Further Maths, Computing and Physics in the second year. The bad thing about this is the extra stress it will cause and the fact that the Physics qualification will only be half of what my Maths, Further Maths and Computing qualifications will be. (As I'm studying those 3 for two years and Physics, hopefully, for one).
If I work hard enough, which I'm sure I can this will mean I will have 4 qualifications by the end of college and if these are good enough it will provide a good grouding to either Computer Science or Mathematics.
Thanks for all the advice
Tom :)
PS. I think I might have confused people reading this post as I went on and on... sorry.
Here's an update on my situation, today I dropped Business Studies for Further Maths (well it's going to be decided tomorrow, my current maths teacher has said he approves but it's down to some more teachers - fingers crossed) so now I'm studying Maths, Further Maths and Computing.
Due to the nature of the Further Maths course I am having to be doing 3 Maths classes per day until christmas, I am not bothered, in fact I'm quite looking forward to that.
This means I couldn't possibly take another subject (namely Physics) until after Christmas, however, by that time it is too late. My only other alternative is to take Physics as a 4th Subject in the second year, this will mean I will be doing Maths, Further Maths, Computing and Physics in the second year. The bad thing about this is the extra stress it will cause and the fact that the Physics qualification will only be half of what my Maths, Further Maths and Computing qualifications will be. (As I'm studying those 3 for two years and Physics, hopefully, for one).
If I work hard enough, which I'm sure I can this will mean I will have 4 qualifications by the end of college and if these are good enough it will provide a good grouding to either Computer Science or Mathematics.
Thanks for all the advice
Tom :)
PS. I think I might have confused people reading this post as I went on and on... sorry.
This topic is closed to new replies.
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