1.) Having DOS libaries is a waste of time
2.) Writing classes yourself when you have a class wizzard with GUID based inclusion guards is a waste of time
3.) Not using clean MFC code when doing GUI Appz is a waste of time
4.) Messing around with broken Borland glut headers is a waste of time
5.) Wasting time is plain STUPID
MSVC++ can do everything BC5 can do. It can just do it better, faster and even more...
Tim
--------------------------
glvelocity.gamedev.net
www.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity
MSVC versus Borland
I do not agree
1) Dos libraries are very useful (look stdio.h)
2) At least you know what you do, Class Wizard sucks
3) MFC sucks, it is slow and un clear code
4) I dunno, I don''t use borland
5) Your answer is soopid
1) Dos libraries are very useful (look stdio.h)
2) At least you know what you do, Class Wizard sucks
3) MFC sucks, it is slow and un clear code
4) I dunno, I don''t use borland
5) Your answer is soopid
I think you confuse the intended meaning of ''DOS Libraries'', with standard console IO. These days, DOS specific libraries are very little use to anyone...
As far as MFC goes, it''s just as light a wrapper as the STL, only it''s significantly less flexible. A doubly linked list implemented inline doesn''t get much slower just because somebody else wrote the code.
If you''re comparing the Borland OO system with M$''s MFC you''ll find that the Borland system does more work for you to make it easier to use, at the slight expense of efficiency and control.
I used to love the Borland products, but nowadays I find it easier to produce a nice clean ANSI compatible app in MSVC.
Jans.
-----------------
Janucybermetaltvgothmogbunny
As far as MFC goes, it''s just as light a wrapper as the STL, only it''s significantly less flexible. A doubly linked list implemented inline doesn''t get much slower just because somebody else wrote the code.
If you''re comparing the Borland OO system with M$''s MFC you''ll find that the Borland system does more work for you to make it easier to use, at the slight expense of efficiency and control.
I used to love the Borland products, but nowadays I find it easier to produce a nice clean ANSI compatible app in MSVC.
Jans.
-----------------
Janucybermetaltvgothmogbunny
Usually only small wannabe coders confuse stdio.h with "DOS". This is win32 console. And all damn C/C++ compilers in the world have proper runtime libs. Oh, and the header file you mean is probably conio.h...
Writing classes yourself is just sooo ultra stupid. You have to be a real dumbass to do so. Why writing inclusion guards ??? What''s the point ??? The IDE can do this for you. It''s to simple. Do you think you are more "cool" or "31337" when you do so ? Tell your employer that you are wasting his money by writing inclusion guards that any 12 year old kid / IDE could write ;-)
so, MFC sucks ? OK. Try to do the following:
Write a Win32 gui application with configurable docking toolbars. The application should have database access and printing with print preview. You should be able to insert OLE objects from other programs like Word and save them. The application should act as an OLE server and should be able to do full shell integration. The full app should be scripting enabled.
OK. You try this with your damn whatever compiler, and I do it with MFC. I''m finished in 60 minutes, you need at least one moth. Guess who is more likely to get a job in some company ?
MFC is not messy. Not more messy than any code you could write to do the same... Or can you accomplish such an application without MFC while still writing cleaner code ??? Probably in C or x86 asm ;-)
Oh, but I forgot! You are soooooooooooo 31337, you don''t need MFC ! That''s for OOP lamers ! You don''t need C++, just C ! And class wizzard sucks, cuz you are so 31337 - you can write the same inclusion guard 100 times a day. Wow, I''m certain everyone is impressed ;-)
Tim
--------------------------
glvelocity.gamedev.net
www.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity
Writing classes yourself is just sooo ultra stupid. You have to be a real dumbass to do so. Why writing inclusion guards ??? What''s the point ??? The IDE can do this for you. It''s to simple. Do you think you are more "cool" or "31337" when you do so ? Tell your employer that you are wasting his money by writing inclusion guards that any 12 year old kid / IDE could write ;-)
so, MFC sucks ? OK. Try to do the following:
Write a Win32 gui application with configurable docking toolbars. The application should have database access and printing with print preview. You should be able to insert OLE objects from other programs like Word and save them. The application should act as an OLE server and should be able to do full shell integration. The full app should be scripting enabled.
OK. You try this with your damn whatever compiler, and I do it with MFC. I''m finished in 60 minutes, you need at least one moth. Guess who is more likely to get a job in some company ?
MFC is not messy. Not more messy than any code you could write to do the same... Or can you accomplish such an application without MFC while still writing cleaner code ??? Probably in C or x86 asm ;-)
Oh, but I forgot! You are soooooooooooo 31337, you don''t need MFC ! That''s for OOP lamers ! You don''t need C++, just C ! And class wizzard sucks, cuz you are so 31337 - you can write the same inclusion guard 100 times a day. Wow, I''m certain everyone is impressed ;-)
Tim
--------------------------
glvelocity.gamedev.net
www.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity
Are you talking to me?
stdio.h/conio.h it''s all the same thing. I was trying to point out that it''s not the BGI, nor some obscure and outdated VESA library
I never said MFC sucks... I use MFC pretty much all day, and it''s ability as a win32 wrapper class system is second to none; it''s very powerful and suitably easy to use.
Most peoples complaints with MFC come from the fact that it uses its own implementation of storage objects which also appear in the STL, and everybody seems to like portability over platform specific speed these days...
I don''t do Warez Speek, so you obviously weren''t talking to me, oh well...
Jans. ;P
-----------------
Janucybermetaltvgothmogbunny
quote:
Usually only small wannabe coders confuse stdio.h with "DOS". Oh, and the header file you mean is probably conio.h...
stdio.h/conio.h it''s all the same thing. I was trying to point out that it''s not the BGI, nor some obscure and outdated VESA library
quote:
so, MFC sucks ?
I never said MFC sucks... I use MFC pretty much all day, and it''s ability as a win32 wrapper class system is second to none; it''s very powerful and suitably easy to use.
Most peoples complaints with MFC come from the fact that it uses its own implementation of storage objects which also appear in the STL, and everybody seems to like portability over platform specific speed these days...
quote:
Oh, but I forgot! You are soooooooooooo 31337,
I don''t do Warez Speek, so you obviously weren''t talking to me, oh well...
Jans. ;P
-----------------
Janucybermetaltvgothmogbunny
1) Dockable toolbars take about 1 min in Builder.
2) Database takes less
3) Print preview takes maybe 10 minutes, mainly to lay the format out
4) OLE integration - easy. That would take maybe 30 minutes, as BCB has worse help then MSVC.
5) Shell integration is easy too (ok maybe not _real_ easy, but it wouldn''t take me a MONTH)
6) thats it
and
7) Why do you think that just because someone thinks MFC sucks that therefore, they must be a hardcore c person who likes to retype everything and ''reinvent the wheel''?
And not use OOP?
Also, off topic, how long can you work in MSVC before it crashes? I can get maybe 1 or 2 hours before it crashes.
------------------------------
BCB DX Library - RAD C++ Game development for BCB
2) Database takes less
3) Print preview takes maybe 10 minutes, mainly to lay the format out
4) OLE integration - easy. That would take maybe 30 minutes, as BCB has worse help then MSVC.
5) Shell integration is easy too (ok maybe not _real_ easy, but it wouldn''t take me a MONTH)
6) thats it
and
7) Why do you think that just because someone thinks MFC sucks that therefore, they must be a hardcore c person who likes to retype everything and ''reinvent the wheel''?
And not use OOP?
Also, off topic, how long can you work in MSVC before it crashes? I can get maybe 1 or 2 hours before it crashes.
------------------------------
BCB DX Library - RAD C++ Game development for BCB
quote:
Also, off topic, how long can you work in MSVC before it crashes? I can get maybe 1 or 2 hours before it crashes.
MSVC runs fine for 8 hour chunks for me (i.e. a working day), to make it more stable you can
a) Run NT.
b) Get the update patches off M$.
Jans.
Probably about time this thread moved to ''General Programming''
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Janucybermetaltvgothmogbunny
While we''re on the topic, I just completed a tutorial on using the MFC with OpenGL. Check it out at http://www.cornflakezone.com
http://www.CornflakeZone.com
//-- Modelling and animation in every dimension --//
http://www.CornflakeZone.com
//-- Modelling and animation in every dimension --//
When I said DOS libraries I meant graphics librarys like the bgi (i thought i said that) and I personally that its very nice for beginning graphics programming. And for me MSVC++ 6.0 works fine in win 98 with no patches
Edited by - oglman on October 15, 2000 1:34:06 PM
Edited by - oglman on October 15, 2000 1:34:06 PM
This topic is closed to new replies.
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