Thanks capn'' for pointing out the obvious. I was just about to point it out myself. I think I like the storyline you were suggesting... more meaningful. In my opinion anyway.
Regards,
Jumpster
Semper Fi
Motivating Progress
- The building may not have been the best example; I was just trying to offer an example of a level where there''s a "typical" amount of monsters between the exit and you but as you spend more and more time on that level, more monsters appear "around" you (mostly behind, I guess, , -maybe , ,). The more I think about it, the more this "killing off all the monsters" bit just seems rather lame to me.
~There''s a point in the HL mod DarkStar where there''s a transporter, and aliens keep transporting in, but if they don''t see you the one just stands in the transporter beam, "blocking the way" for others, it seems. It''s only if you lure him away from the transporter that more appear. And there''s a task that you have to do right there, well within range, so it''s not impossible to move around the area, it just has to be worthwhile for you to risk taking damage for whatever you''re looking for. You do end up turning their transporter off, but until you figure out how that''s done you have to deal with an endless supply of aliens, and you always have to watch your back. - I do note that (if you have seen the game) they have set up some unusual conditions in that area, such as how the aliens can''t see through the glass chamber area, only through the doorway. My guess is that just putting the aliens'' transporter in the open was too difficult for most players to deal with. - Lubb
~There''s a point in the HL mod DarkStar where there''s a transporter, and aliens keep transporting in, but if they don''t see you the one just stands in the transporter beam, "blocking the way" for others, it seems. It''s only if you lure him away from the transporter that more appear. And there''s a task that you have to do right there, well within range, so it''s not impossible to move around the area, it just has to be worthwhile for you to risk taking damage for whatever you''re looking for. You do end up turning their transporter off, but until you figure out how that''s done you have to deal with an endless supply of aliens, and you always have to watch your back. - I do note that (if you have seen the game) they have set up some unusual conditions in that area, such as how the aliens can''t see through the glass chamber area, only through the doorway. My guess is that just putting the aliens'' transporter in the open was too difficult for most players to deal with. - Lubb
I'm not sure I like either of the methods described. Rewards tend to stop working after a while, and the other method seems to railroad the player along.
So, my own opinion... make goals for the player to accomplish, but make the goals matter emotionally to the player.
For example, take Final Fantasy 7. Killing off Aeris was a stroke of genius! It was so damn manipulative, it's not even funny -- but it worked! And it made the goal of killing Sephiroth matter much more to the player because it caused many players to genuinely hate him.
In other words, I'm suggesting that we pull the players emotional strings, for lack of a better way to put it.
----------------------------------------
"Before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Deep Thoughts
Edited by - The Senshi on October 11, 2000 8:59:22 PM
So, my own opinion... make goals for the player to accomplish, but make the goals matter emotionally to the player.
For example, take Final Fantasy 7. Killing off Aeris was a stroke of genius! It was so damn manipulative, it's not even funny -- but it worked! And it made the goal of killing Sephiroth matter much more to the player because it caused many players to genuinely hate him.
In other words, I'm suggesting that we pull the players emotional strings, for lack of a better way to put it.
----------------------------------------
"Before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Deep Thoughts
Edited by - The Senshi on October 11, 2000 8:59:22 PM
I would have to agree with The Senshi... I''m not entirely sure that either of these would be effective motivators.
Maybe a combination of the two. E.g.; On the first level you need to get to the 2nd because there is a more powerful weapon... Once on the second level your forced to the third by a band of enemy''s and you can''t go back down.
Or using your building example... why not start them at the top... and they need to get to the ground floor by a certain time or they will be trapped in a building that is about to be demolished.
Or start the player on the 10th floor of a 20 story building... it''s the players decision as to which way he goes
That could be interesting...
Dave "Dak Lozar"Loeser
Maybe a combination of the two. E.g.; On the first level you need to get to the 2nd because there is a more powerful weapon... Once on the second level your forced to the third by a band of enemy''s and you can''t go back down.
Or using your building example... why not start them at the top... and they need to get to the ground floor by a certain time or they will be trapped in a building that is about to be demolished.
Or start the player on the 10th floor of a 20 story building... it''s the players decision as to which way he goes
That could be interesting...
Dave "Dak Lozar"Loeser
I think motivating the player through emotions is really great. I have never played the FF games though really.
"""" "'Nazrix is cool' -- Nazrix" --Darkmage --Godfree"-Nazrix" -- runemaster --and now dwarfsoft" -- dwarfsoft --pouya" -- Nazrix
""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
"""" "'Nazrix is cool' -- Nazrix" --Darkmage --Godfree"-Nazrix" -- runemaster --and now dwarfsoft" -- dwarfsoft --pouya" -- Nazrix
""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
In one of the crash bandicoots (or more than one, i forget 
) there were levels where a giant boulder came rolling behind you, so you had no choice but to outrun it as fast and frantically as you could. I didn''t like the camera position on these levels, but otherwise they were a BLAST. But, they were only a blast because they only occured once every four or five levels. Variety variety variety, with a central theme of course .
aakks
) there were levels where a giant boulder came rolling behind you, so you had no choice but to outrun it as fast and frantically as you could. I didn''t like the camera position on these levels, but otherwise they were a BLAST. But, they were only a blast because they only occured once every four or five levels. Variety variety variety, with a central theme of course .aakks
Author
The problem with allowing a (single) player to kill off all of the enemies on a level and then wander around feely is that after all the enemies are dead, the player is no longer -actively- at risk, in that level (I guess you might fall off a cliff or down a hole or something, but you don''t need to worry about anything actually attacking you until you exit the level).
~~~ I can''t think of any examples of that in board games: for instance, in checkers, all of your pieces are always at some degree of danger. There''s no way you can choose to just sit in one safe place within the game and choose not to be at risk.
You could still have instances of limited numbers of enemies, where it made sense, but it''s difficult for me to imagine why you''d want to do it everywhere. - Lubb
~~~ I can''t think of any examples of that in board games: for instance, in checkers, all of your pieces are always at some degree of danger. There''s no way you can choose to just sit in one safe place within the game and choose not to be at risk.
You could still have instances of limited numbers of enemies, where it made sense, but it''s difficult for me to imagine why you''d want to do it everywhere. - Lubb
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