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Warsong

Programmers should not Design! If yes Then industry = doomed

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If programmers continue to be the main game designers then the industry is Doomed. I see many programmers think they know it all and they only want artists. Some that are versatile and have double majors then that would be better. If the industry continues to be geared towards programmers to mainly design then there goes the industry. There are so many programmers that are able to make something good but the majority comes up with nothing special. The real problem is when they complain that they know how to make something good, but so far have not shown a great game. I see many programmers in the help wanted asking for people to help them in art, but many programmers would not like to assistance. The mentality has to change within the industry and outside of the industry to make better games and more meaningful games. They are good at times at what they do but should be humble and learn to listen. But there is always an exception for the few programmers due to life's certain circumstances. The top game designs come from non programmers like Shigeru Miyamoto which he majored in industrial design. Maybe there should be a job for just designing, and I know many will say that everyone has an idea but many have bad ideas. Many may have an idea or two that is good but they do not have enough to make an entire game. You see many in the help wanted asking for people and say they have an idea but they only have one concept and they would like artists, designers, programmers, etc. People that have a few are good fir assisting in putting an idea but are not that good for making a game. Another is artists which I have seen many that can draw but can not design. Many want a piece of the action. Another note is that many of the top people in the game industry got in it by luck to know someone that works in the company. The industry does not take risks to make better games to ask for designers but want more programmers to make bad games. You may like the game but many people like games of no substance. Many are content since they do not know the full potential of things. People that are content do not push for better thing and if many had it there way we would be play still with 4 or 8 bit systems like Atari or Nintendo which they pushed to not evolve games or give credit to the people that made the games. Games are still being pushed to not be evolved by distracting people with art than game play and content. If you want money and are going in the industry for the money then don’t! Go to the marketing part of the game industry since you work less and get paid more. Here is an article if you want to see about the future of game design on what will happen. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3727932.stm

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Where are you getting your information? Do you really think the "Help Wanted" boards are representative of the game industry? Do you really think that the grunt programmers are the ones that design the games in the industry?

Reguardless of the answers, I haven't seen a game that designed in quite a while. All the games I can think of were just copied.

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Game magazines, No, and no. But many programmers are lead to believe that, but some become designers. And as for your comment I agree.

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I have a better idea, people who don't play games shouldn't design them! It doesn't matter if you're a programmer/artist/industrial designer.

As far as the help wanted section goes, that's another issue altogether. If anything, it's a result of too many people with ideas, and not enough skill to follow them through. Which you might realize, would be less likely for a programmer.

You don't need to have a million ideas to make games. You do if you want to last longer than one game :), but those few ideas may be enough for a hit. Happens so often in music there's even a phrase for it, "one hit wonder".

In the end, it's the same for games as it is anything else, 1% inspiration, 99% persperation.

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That's funny: Shigeru Miyamoto was a programmer who got in the industry because of his dad. He doesn't prgram any more of course, but I know he at least programmed Donkey Kong. Google it.

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skill is skill, talent is talent, genious is genious ...

no skill translates on its own to another, no talent implies another, and genious in one area does not indicate rational thought in any other ...

but they don't prevent it either ...

The guy who said people who don't play games shouldn't design them - is wrong - not always, or most of the time - but some of the time. Many people play games, and know how to be a critic, but that is not the same as actually being able to design your own game. In fact, many many games are originally designed with no concept of how they will finally be played and enjoyed - they are designed because some creative freak has an idea they NEED to explore and express ... then the formalize it and clean it up, and it gets packages for mass consumption and played ...

IN THE OLD DAYS (when originality existed, and designs were not created by the market research division) when a game was played, the players often played it in ways completely differently than the designer did / does ... and in fact, some types of games are not even fun for the programmers to play (too much knowledge, no surprise) ... but that doesn't make them fun for the GAMER to play.

For example, a kid cannot design a kid's game, and an adult cannot get the kids gaming experience for themselves .... so how do they do it?

The first have the bravery to implement a design not knowing for sure that it will be liked ... then they get feedback ...

Then they do it again.

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Industary programmers don't work on thier own, there are in teams of 2-20 sometimes. Some programmers can design a game, but what really dooms a project is when it's one person designing the game. No one is good at everything. One person is not a design team.

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Quote:
Original post by Extrarius
Where are you getting your information? Do you really think the "Help Wanted" boards are representative of the game industry? Do you really think that the grunt programmers are the ones that design the games in the industry?

Reguardless of the answers, I haven't seen a game that designed in quite a while. All the games I can think of were just copied.


Look at Nintendo GameCube's list and see that the best sales are from the firstparty games. Yu're right on the PC and XBox, but GCN and PS2 - do - have 'designed' games.

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That's why I like Nintendo.
As for programmers designing games, I don't see why they can't have some input at least, after all, everyone has ideas.

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Quote:
Original post by Lord_Jabbercat
Industary programmers don't work on thier own, there are in teams of 2-20 sometimes. Some programmers can design a game, but what really dooms a project is when it's one person designing the game. No one is good at everything. One person is not a design team.


While this is partially true, I believe that there should only be one person (or a very small number of people who share a common vision) that actually shape the game. Whilst taking ideas from many people is always a good thing, there must be someone (who the rest of the team respect and trust) at the helm who can actually make the final call. I've worked on games which have had many people contribute to the design, only for the mechanics to become bloated and the visual style to be inconsistant.

Of course, the problem is finding someone you trust to make the "right call". :)

T

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