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Jiia

Changing weapons, realistically?

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I'm developing a single player 3rd person cyberpunk RPG, and I've ran into this situation. So far, all of the animations for the game look extremely realistic. Characters will actually pick up / drop weapons (rather than it vanishing to/from their hand), they can equip holsters for rifles on their backs, and straps for sidearms / SMGs. They actually place and remove weapons from / to these places in game time (non-inventory mode) as they need them. The problem is that in order to have these holsters and straps, a place for potential armor is occupied. So the player must give up an armor part to be able to switch weapons quickly. This is pointless, considering you can just as easily go into inventory mode and change the weapons instantly, thus making the inventory trip more efficient, combat-wise. So I'm stuck with either not allowing the player to access inventory in combat mode, or just avoiding the whole real-time weapon switching. I don't think this is acceptable. The inventory mode access seems annoying and un-user-friendly. A pause, click, click, click just to change weapons when you run out of ammo. And having a weapon appear out of nowhere (as in non-inventory access, switching between non-holstered weapons) simply does not fit with the rest of the game. Imagine running into a building with a shotgun, BLAST BLAST, there goes two gaurds. Throw that on the floor and pull out the SMG as a legion of security run at you, spraying your clip and the room clean. Now imagine having to pause and go into inventory mode in-between this mayhem. Kinda takes away the magic, doesn't it? Some solutions to my problem: 1. Backpack. Character can put/take things in real time. A BACKPACK?? How lame! 2. Player pulls/places weapons from side opposite to camera [lol] 3. Player pulls/places weapons from a concealed area (like under his arm). This might look rather strange, but I doubt it would look as bad as the weapon materializing out of thin air. As you can see, my solutions are terrible. I cannot think of an acceptable way to do this. How in the hell did that marine in Doom 3 carry all of that crap? I wish I could switch to 3rd person and see what is going on behind the camera [grin] Any advice is much appreciated [smile]

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Quote:


The problem is that in order to have these holsters and straps, a place for potential armor is occupied.


Why is that? What kind of armour can you have? This seems like the easiest thing to fix. Is it possible to adjust the holster positions if you wear armor, to compensate for it's thickness? If that is the problem, that is...

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Well, it might be possible to deform the strap parts of the holsters or create different versions of them. The straps wrap around the arms, legs, torso, or waist. So if the armor is not totally round, as with the body parts, the straps will intersect with them.

I have to admit that creating a simple strap for each different shaped part would not be that difficult or time consuming. But it does exponentially add to the stack of my huge list of things to do [smile]

It's a good idea. Definitely better than anything I've considered. Thanks [smile]

edit:

Ack! Second thoughts. The animations which reach to put or pull weapons from the holsters will be off if their positions change. I'm sure I could use an IK system on the hands to fix this, but I'm puting IK stuff off for as long as I can [smile]

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It seems like youre trying to force reality on a game that's fundementally not realistic. If the character isn't running around with a backpack of some sort, where is he storing all the guns he has in his inventory? Lame or not, you're going to be pulling things out of thin air at some point if you have a magical inventory system.

I'd remove weapons from the inventory all together. Have ammo in your inventory, but actual guns require sacrifice. If you want a shotgun strapped to your back, you can't be wearing full body armor. A leg holster requires loose fitting pants. Basically a combination of what you've already got, with some combinations of armor/holsters that have been animated to fit properly. By allowing logical combinations, you reduce the number of times the player things "why the hell can't I do this?"

This way, if people want six guns on them at all times, that's an option. But if they want to be walking tanks, they'll have to pick up new weapons off their opponents as they go along. And all the while, you've reduced the number of inventory trips dramatically, keeping the game more immersive.

CM

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you could have a few levels of weapon-changing/holding-ness

you could have the player, when they first have weapons and don't have a holster yet, just stuff the gun in their pants and any ammo in their pockets (loose cargo pants would be your friend in this case)...this would stop them from wearing some armor...

next level would be when they get a holster...then they could shove the gun into their holster...this would let them wear more armor but still limit

...if you feel the need you could go with a matrix-like trenchcoat for the third level...this would let them wear any armor...

just a few ideas...

-Ajain

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Simply give 'layer attributes' to items so that some items (weapons belt, which usually have huge amounts of extra 'belt') can go over something else (armor). This is something that I'm planning on putting into my game.

Weapons belts can go over armor, plate armor can go over padded or leather armors, certain robes can go over any other type of armor.

It's basically based upon the fact that some items are more adjustable than others. Chain armor doesn't adjust, though it is usually much larger than it needs to be, Plate armor is usually large enough to put padding underneath (or soft leather armor), but you're not going to do much fighting with a poorly designed backpack on.

One way to avoid the 'inventory screen weapon changes' is to simply not make inventory screen not pause the game. One other thing is to make them make sure that they put on a holder for the weapon, otherwise when they change from the weapon they equipped from inventory, they'll drop it on the ground for lack of somewhere to hold it properly.

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If you don't want to slow down the action, make it so that you can change weapons with button combinations. I've thought of this being used on the PS2, so I'll used that for my example.

Shotgun blasts come at you and you dive behind a metal crate. You equip your SMG, stand up, and unload your clip. Now, being out of ammo, you duck, hit L1 and X at the same time to equip your shotgun, stand up, and unload again. You duck, hit L1 and square to equip your right semi-automatic handgun and L1 and sqaure to eqip your left semi-automatic handgun, and the process continues. Basically, there'd be a total of eight combinations using L1 or L2 with X, square, circle, or triangle.



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Quote:
Original post by orionx103
If you don't want to slow down the action, make it so that you can change weapons with button combinations.
Or the four cardinals on the d-pad. Less involved.

I fail to see the appeal of all this emphasis on "realism". Lower or otherwise move hands out of the view frustrum, change weapon, restore. Voila!

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Lowering the player's hands out of the view frustum would look kinda funny in a 3pp game - although maybe you could zoom in on the player's face or something during the weapon change to make it feasible.

I'd say the best solution is to do as Connor says and not allow you to store weapons in this magical 'inventory'. Limit the player to two weapons, one for each hand. Maybe have a couple of leg holsters or other standard strapping places, but if you're after realism you can't carry that many weapons anyway. It always bugs me in a game when I'm meant to be a desperate, lone marine up against the hordes of the undead, with only the chainsaw, flamethrower, sniper rifle, hamster and sherman tank in my backpack to help me.

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I'm still stuck on this "weapons magically sprouting out of your @55" thing. I mean...everybody knows that if I could take the hamster AND the sniper rifle, well, I'm taking both.

I agree with Oluseyi's version of orion's idea (pressing triggers and buttons is confusing...and what if you want to reload your current weapon, crouch-jump, aim, and select a new weapon? Then you can't do it).

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