Quote:Original post by Max_Payne

Quote:Original post by MdLeadG
I find it irritating when people make arguments against a certain group of people, when they can find an infinitude of other situations that they get irritated by on a daily basis. Blaming homosexuality for your child getting beaten up at school is ignorance, plain and simple. Sorry, no offense meant.

There are other problems in society, sure. Doesn't make it less of a problem. And no, homosexuality isnt the reason homosexuals get beaten up, but well, if they were heterosexual, they would surely feel safer. There are some aspects on which everyone prefers to be *normal*.

I like the fact that I'm heterosexual. I'd like to have the guarantee that all girls are heterosexual. I'd like to have the guarantee that no guys are ever going to look at me in strange ways. When I have kids, I hope they will be heterosexual, and I hope their kids will be heterosexual as well.

Is there anything hateful in what I just said?

Not hateful, but that way of thought is dangerous. Basically, you want to eliminate all different qualities that exist among people and can make you feel unconfortable or make your life harder. Sorry, life isn't like that and I hope it will never be.

Quote:Original post by Max_Payne

Quote:Original post by MdLeadG
I find it irritating when people make arguments against a certain group of people, when they can find an infinitude of other situations that they get irritated by on a daily basis. Blaming homosexuality for your child getting beaten up at school is ignorance, plain and simple. Sorry, no offense meant.

There are other problems in society, sure. Doesn't make it less of a problem. And no, homosexuality isnt the reason homosexuals get beaten up, but well, if they were heterosexual, they would surely feel safer. There are some aspects on which everyone prefers to be *normal*.

I like the fact that I'm heterosexual. I'd like to have the guarantee that all girls are heterosexual. I'd like to have the guarantee that no guys are ever going to look at me in strange ways. When I have kids, I hope they will be heterosexual, and I hope their kids will be heterosexual as well. Why? Because it would make things much, much simpler for everyone.

If we could genetically prevent colorblindness, and you knew your kids are going to be colorblind, would you prevent it?

Is there anything hateful in what I just said?

Homosexuality and colorblindness are not comparable, IMO. Colorblindness has immediate negative consequences that don't need societal interaction to come about. Changing society is not going to be able to remove these problems with colorblindness. Homosexuality, however, derives most, if not all, of its negatives from the state of society at the time. Changing society can have a significant impact on the problems of homosexuality.

That said, I can't criticize you much for your views. You have the right to think them, and me being an ethical relativist and all, I don't really have much basis to call you wrong. But I'll just point out that I think it would be healthier for the overall human community to focus on changing selves rather than changing others. Thus, I'd rather learn to live with homosexuals peacefully than to "fix" them. Trying to change others all the time, in my experience, isn't really all that effective. Not nearly as effective as trying to change yourself, at least. (The irony is that it often seems as though I need to first change other people who currently want to change other people; change intolerance into tolerance. So I'll try not to be demanding here, but just state my views for you to consider. I can't blame you if you don't prefer them.)

Quote:Original post by Max_Payne
Scenario 1: You meet a girl, she becomes your friend, you begin to really like her, you love her. You want to announce her your love, she tells you she's a lesbian.

What if she was hetero and tells you you are definatelly not her type when you anounce? Same pain in your chest. Happens all the time. This scenario doesn't hold it's water.

Quote:Original post by Max_Payne
Scenario 2: You meet a girl, she becomes your friend, you begin to really like her, you love her. She becomes your girlfriend. Things seem to be doing ok, but not so well. She leaves you, and gets herself a girlfriend. You meet her later and she tells you that she never really liked men in fact, but just did it because she wanted to be accepted.

This is exactly the same if she left you for another *man* and tells you she never liked *you* in the first place, but she did it for money or whatever. Sure it's wrong, but the overall situation isn't a gay-only scenario. Also holds no water.

Quote:Original post by Max_Payne
Scenario 3: A guy is in love with you, but he's quite aggressive. You are not interested, but he is very insisting. Rumors start spreading about this, and people question your sexual orientation. You make sure the guy knows you're not interested, but he becomes frustrated and humiliates you in public.

Change guy for girl, or leave if you're a girl. There are agressive pursuers everywhere in the world. If it were a hetero scenario, rumours would still be wispered, only not about sexual orientation but about having a partner in the first place, which would be false. *shrug* Although "some" might consider it humiliating to think others think your gay. But still, I find it unlikely that serious rumours would start up unless you were actually giving in to some extent to his advances, but that's just me.

Quote:Original post by Max_Payne
Scenario 4: You have a son, he's getting beaten at school everyday. You eventually learn that he's homosexual and has made the mistake of revealing it to a friend that turned out not to be such a good friend.

That's an unfortunate situation involving a so-called friend that would be completelly prevented if only people could accept gays as equal and educate their kids about the subject. We can't keep on covering up the issue and restrict gays because it will just lead to more hatred like this. It's a vicious circle.

Quote:Original post by Schwowsers
And you seem to be totally forgetting the fact that I can't just assume that the people I like are gay. That is something you don't have to deal with. I'm searching for invisible people, you're not.

We all have this problem, tho. We have to search for the people we like, who aren't crazy, and who won't dismiss us from their lives simply because we want something besides friendship. Gay support communities are, in my experience, far richer than hetero support communities - I'm talking from first-hand observation, which you are free to accept or reject as you wish - and determining if someone is gay is a relatively smaller problem than determining if they like you. Yes, your pool is smaller in an absolute sense. No, your percentage chance of success isn't, at least not worse than those of us who aren't, for example, terrifically physically attractive.

To the OP, I think that in my country at least, everyone up to and including gay couples and common-law marriages have very similar rights and obligations and the word "marriage" is a substantial fight over an insubstantial issue - whose recognition do you want for your marriage? What rights are being denied due to not being allowed to "marry"?

I don't see the point of denying the inevitable pull of history at this point on the issue, but really it's costing an awful lot of time and money to get what is in most cases a one-phrase change in the legislation. What is the huge benefit? As one poster put it, roll everyone back to civil unions in the legislation. Only you can't do that, because the populace would lose their shit completely. What a fuck-up it is.

Quote:Original post by Frank Henry

Quote:Original post by 23yrold3yrold

Quote:Original post by Frank Henry

Quote:Original post by 23yrold3yrold
Everything in the Bible applies to everyone; it doesn't go away because you don't believe in it. [wink] God created them man and woman. Go be married, no matter what your beliefs are. I've never met a Christian who had a problem with non-Christian heterosexual marriage, and I doubt I ever will. [smile]

So you can basicly force your views onto others because what you believe in is the rule for all?

Of course not. Learn to read and you'll realize I didn't say that.

Did you not say this?

Quote:]Original post by 23yrold3yrold
Everything in the Bible applies to everyone; it doesn't go away because you don't believe in it.

Everything in the Bible applies to everyone.. the rules, the regulations, the punishments...

But none of what I said has anything to do with forcing my views on you. I mean, I think gravity applies to everyone whether you believe in it or not. Does that mean I am personally forcing gravity on you? No. It means if you jump off a cliff, something's going to happen to you and you can't complain that being unable to fly (or even miss the ground) means I'm oppressing your rights. [smile]

Quote:Original post by Frank Henry

Quote:]]Original post by 23yrold3yrold

Quote:Original post by Frank Henry
Why don't you live your life like you choose and let everyone else live their lives as they choose.

Amazing. That sounds exactly like what I was doing.

Oh on the contrary. You said the contents of the Bible apply to everyone... pretty much telling people what applies to them is NOT what I would call letting people decide for themselves.

If it is THE law then there is no way around it... am I correct?

I never said there was a way around it (well, there is, but the gays crowd is moving in exactly the opposite direction). But yes, at the same time I can say I'm going to live my life like I choose and let everyone else live their lives as they choose.

On God being love: yes. But God isn't just love. You're oversimplifying it to a second grade level and make it sound like you can do whatever you want as long as it's based in love. Which is just silly.

Quote:Original post by liquiddark

Quote:Original post by Schwowsers
And you seem to be totally forgetting the fact that I can't just assume that the people I like are gay. That is something you don't have to deal with. I'm searching for invisible people, you're not.

We all have this problem, tho. We have to search for the people we like, who aren't crazy, and who won't dismiss us from their lives simply because we want something besides friendship.

We also can't assume all people are single. [sad]