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Solarcore

Im sure you've heard THIS one before.....

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Hey all, Just introducing myself, And stumbled accross this site reading up on some programming lanquages... I've always been a creative sort, and always loved the thought of making something of my own from scratch....as a result, i have ended up becomming a trance producer..and im doing great and loving it.. I was really interested once into getting started into programming, but someone once told me "if u don't have a good knowledge of maths, don't bother" so this put me RIGHT off, I can pull out my hand from my pocket, count my change fine, I can do the simplish stuff...decimals, fractions etc.. but any more..forget it. Now is maths essential? What programming language is most efficient/adaptable for games? Which one would be best suited to myself (as i have no prior programming knowledge) as im really interested to get into games programming, and im sure my producing experience could be put to great use with it (making my own music for my own games...wicked) I know these things arn't overnight wonders...It took me 3 years of self teaching syntheisis/musical structure/theory/sequencing etc to learn what i know now about music...so im not one to give up easily...but aslong as i have fun on the way. Any help on getting me started would be much appreciated. Please dont say "learn darkbasic" i hear its pretty good, but if im going to learn something as dedicating as this, i would like to do it properly (just the way i am :) ) Again many thanks. Trance_Core ps, sorry for the looonnngg post...i tend to waffle alot :P

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Yes, maths is very essential if you want to be a good programmer. Its pretty much the key to programming. Of course, you don't need to have a whole lot of math knowledge to make simple games, but the better ones do require a good bit of math. I suggest reading a book for game programming based math, but if you don't much math at all, it'd be better to get a pure math book.

There are many languages that you can use, but the most common are java, visual basic, and c++. Since you don't know a lot of math, you should start out with an easier language like java or visual basic. But that doesn't mean you should'nt try learning C++. It was the first language i learned and it wasn't that difficult.

prudicing your own music would put nice originality to your games and you can call it your own. Also, you can AVOID lawsuits.

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Maths? It entirely depends on what you want to do. Doom3 likely requires lots of fairly advanced Linear Algebra among other mathematical fields, but Tic Tac Toe wouldn't. And I'm sure some would claim both to be just as much fun...

What sort of things are you interested in making?

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Quote:
Original post by Doc
Maths? It entirely depends on what you want to do. Doom3 likely requires lots of fairly advanced Linear Algebra among other mathematical fields, but Tic Tac Toe wouldn't. And I'm sure some would claim both to be just as much fun...

What sort of things are you interested in making?


Of course, Tic Tac Toe is a classic, and it can be confusing to make.

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not really wanting to create anything overly spectacular regarding graphics...Think Final fantasy stuff...but more so the older snes versions...chrono trigger, Final fantasy 6 etc.

hmm maths...GRRRR i knew not listening in class would come back to kick me in the ass one day lol

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its good to start out with console type games, then 2d, and then finally 3d. Starting with console gives you a chance to get good practice with implementing many things like functions, classes, structures, and program flow.

2d games help get you started with simple graphics programming and put you in basis for a bit more math than in a console game like collision detection. You can make side scroller games like zelda and the earlier final fantasy games and really build your skills.

3d games give you good practice with very complicated mathematics, and a lot of program flow. You get to make many stunning games and effects and learn to do a great variety of things like particles(you can start this in 2d though), terrain, shading, and many other effects.

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Great!!

Like i say, i know its not over night work...

Someone told me to use rpg maker...but wheres the fun in that lol..

in your thoughts.. Which language would be best suited to myself and such?

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For you, I think it would be best to start out with either visual basic or java. But you should at least try and learn C++ and see if you understand it. I hope this helps.

And if so, rate me up[wink]

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Quote:
Original post by baddogj
And if so, rate me up[wink]


lol, Nice :p

Some one mentioned Delphi as being easy to learn, and being more flexible than VB, How true does this hold?

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I really can't say because i have never learned delphi. Visual basic can be a bit confusing with the windows and etc., and if it is confusing you can just use java. It is based off C++ and is very much like C++ except a lot less confusing.

Even though i don't know much about delphi, i think it would probably be better to learn java or visual basic because they are more commonly used and there are many people that can help you.

if this helps, you know what to do[wink]
ah, just kidding. but if you want to rate me up go ahead, im not complaining. The more the merrier.

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cool, (btw u owe me £5 now) j/k :)

wht i don't get is all this talk i hear about varibles/arrays, sub routines,classes, objects etc...

But presumebly i'd start to learn this as it comes with learning a programming language correct?

(or have i been living in a cave for 20 years)

Many thanks

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As someone said, logic and structure are very important. That includes your posting style. You should not litter your posts with lols, exclamation marks, and ellipsis. It makes your posts look sloppy and untidy, and reflects an undisciplined mind unsuited to the rigour of programming. The effort of using complete, grammatical sentences will stand you in good stead later, when you need to instruct computers in painstaking detail. Straighten up! Cut your hair! Hands out of pockets!

You will sometimes see the 1337-speak used by the veteran denizens of this board; however, you should not imitate them until you have written your first Tetris clone. Only the experienced coder can properly utilise the inspired sloppiness that arises from a disciplined mind. Consider these words of wisdom :
Quote:
A novice asked the Master: "Here is a programmer that never designs, documents or tests his programs. Yet all who know him consider him one of the best programmers in the world. Why is this?"

The Master replies: "That programmer has mastered the Tao. He has gone beyond the need for design; he does not become angry when the system crashes, but accepts the universe without concern. He has gone beyond the need for documentation; he no longer cares if anyone else sees his code. He has gone beyond the need for testing; each of his programs are perfect within themselves, serene and elegant, their purpose self-evident. Truly, he has entered the mystery of Tao."


Before chaos can benefit you, you must know order. Such is the nature of the Tao.

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Quote:
Original post by Solarcore
cool, (btw u owe me £5 now) j/k :)

wht i don't get is all this talk i hear about varibles/arrays, sub routines,classes, objects etc...

But presumebly i'd start to learn this as it comes with learning a programming language correct?

(or have i been living in a cave for 20 years)

Many thanks


You should start by getting a good programming book. The books section above has a great list of many good books that you could get. They also got general books about program structure design and logic which can definetly help you.

oh yeah, thanks. Ill pay you back when...

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You don't need a lot of math for basic hobbyist game programming. The only tough math comes with advanced games and 3D graphics. You can easily make console games, 2D RPGS, and sidescrollers WITHOUT a lot of math. I'm sure you already know all the math you need to know. Math in basic game programming is really just common sense.

C++ is used most often. It's easy to use it with DirectX or OpenGL, one of which you're probably going to end up using if you stick with game programming.

People will tell you it's complicated and hard and all that jazz. But if you get a good, easy-to-understand book, and you're actually interested in learning this stuff, then it won't be a problem. People make it out like it's much harder than it really is.

I recommend "C++ For Dummies," by Stephen Randy Davis. It's really an excellent guide to C++ for beginners, especially if you don't know much, or anything, about programming. It's easy to understand, and will teach you all you need to know.

-Gauvir_Mucca

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well i read your 2 example games above chrono and ff6 and if those are just graphics examples thats fine but be warned that an rpg (while the most sought after (semingly) game to make) is also the hardest jumping into this kind of game right away could scare you (or anyone) away from programming so start small

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I can't believe noone has pointed you in the direction of here and here. Those are both very good resources for those starting out.

Now, about maths... as has been said, it often depends on what you need to do. Also keep in mind though, you only need to understand the theory of the maths, being able to actually solve it yourself is helpful, but in no way really neccesary (although it does come in handy for checking the correctness of your formula). I have a fair amount of difficulty with more advanced maths myself, but I tend to find that I can program the computer to solve the problems quite easily - after all, you're really just taking an existing mathematical formula, entering it into the computer as code, and applying the answer in a useful fashion - not nearly as hard as actually solving problems yourself.

Oh, and as for language, you'll find that C/C++ are the most common recommendation, and the ones which tend to have the most resources available - however, almost any other language is also fine as long as it's used correctly and it's limitations are kept in mind.

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