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cdrw

shooting down bsp trees

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i learned bsp trees like one and a half years ago, and i can use my own 3d studio max geometry in them, and i feel smart, but ive been thinking, with all the time you spend making a level, couldnt one just place like indicator vertexes in each room that you can see from the room your currently designing? next time im done with a level, i think ill cut each room into a seperate mesh, find the bounding boxes for each of them(either aabb or obb) and use an manualy placed indicator PVS and get a pvs that way, for rooms and not individual polygons. and beyond that, id place sensor vertices on furnature corners in the rooms to see if they can reach the player position for visibility indication as well, cause bsps are alot of digital crap! and i hate them. (oh and its going to be 3 weeks before i get back to makign levels, im working on a cookie cutter character generator right now) am i being a buttface? to me bsp trees seem like a gigantic peice of god awful complexity that some nerd addicted to asprin came up with. if this doesnt sound way to stupid, i wanted to bring it up. after i get done with my character generator in liek 3 more weeks, imna invent, um, MPVtrees (manualy placed visibility trees, yeah thats it)

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Guest Anonymous Poster
"am i being a buttface?"
Your rating should help you to find the right answer by yourself, i guess..

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Guest Anonymous Poster
not realy , i like being a buttface,
im the only kid in class that can make or talk about making video games,
and geeks talk abotu a lot of crap they dont know of,
so here you go
a buttface

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Guest Anonymous Poster
dude im totaly a buttfaced nerd,

geeks dont treat me well and i know alot more them them,

i dont like you

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Guest Anonymous Poster
i hate oit when geeks get all stuck on my words and get their panties in a bunch about launguage,
if your not gonna try and understand what im saying,
can you just butt out?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
So, wtf, u like being a buttface, and u succeed very well in this role... everything looks good to me, you should take my words as compliments, and thank me for telling you what you wanted to hear..
Cheers, buttface !

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Guest Anonymous Poster
you dont seem know crap,

can you answer my question dumbasskis?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
can you just answer my question or not take up cyberspace trying to make yourself look smart?

i can already tell you that geeks like to pcik on me where they can,
and i dont think ridiculing me if very smart anymore

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Guest Anonymous Poster
im like an easy target for geeks who dont know anything

its so maddening

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Guest Anonymous Poster
thats it imna just go anonomous all the time now so i can do without your worthless two cents voting on me

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Guest Anonymous Poster
i know some engines use just portals in doorways and such to flag polygons for visibilities,
but im talking about one vertex you have to place per room that you can see while spending an horu designing the room,
i just think since it takes so long to design a level, cant you just use your time wisely there and use one vertex indicators inside joined rooms from the romm your spending an hour designing anyways, and wipe out the need to program antipenumbras and the whole mess of bsp trees in the first place?

thats a lot of technological mess you could just cut out completely.

id love to prune this part of the 3d game bush if i could.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
i don't really understand what you mean by indicator vertex. i fail to see what you're going to do with it.
anyway, with a portal system, couldn't you use portal clipping instead of penumbra/antipenumbra ?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
and i dont know what else id add to it,
you could make simple "sweep vectors", one for each side of a each doorway and treat it liek a frustum window peering into each room, and you could cut away all polygons not in the sweep frustum threaded through just two points on eiterh side of the door way from the player, and you wouldnt have to portal each polygon at the beggining and make a list before game time, or import a pvs file or something, that could be done in real time just as fast as a regular frustum operation works.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
id place an "indicator" vertex in each room that i can see from the room in designing out currently in 3ds max, and then make a simple tally function inside c++ that makes a pvs for the selected room with each room that has in "indicator" vertex in it, and you could differenciate between all the indicators you place in a level as to what room they belong to by height.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
i mean just place an "indicator" vertex in each room you can see from where your at, and then render only the rest of the levels rooms that have indicator verts in them for the room your currently in

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Guest Anonymous Poster
the portals i learned with used the complex anti penumbra sweeps for every facing polygon, and didnt just use simpler culling methods

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Guest Anonymous Poster
and on top of that, they had a strange long method of determining what rooms they wouldnt ever hit, and to me it just feels like some nerd wanted to give everyone headaches and didnt think about how little time a designer would have to spend marking visible rooms somehow when theyre takign 16 hours to desing levels already

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Guest Anonymous Poster
it is important to make code less of a gigantic snotball isnt it?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
definitely, i'm a bit lost by your explanations.. i think i got the basics of your idea, but i can't picture how to apply it in practice.
well, i'm not talking about portals like in a pvs here, i'm talking about "pure portals". it's a lot more flexible and easy, and requires almost zero preprocessing.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
in a nutshell:

create a pvs for each room, instead of each polygon,
use the pvs list to filter out non visible ROOMS from the renderer device, instead of polygons,

and then use doorway frustum to cull out most non seen other room geometry with real a time simple door way culling, polygon by polygon in the other rooms,
that resembles octree frustum culling.
Only instead of filtering out non seen octree nodes, you could filter out polygons that arent in the doorway frustum(or im guessing that might be the simple portal frustum your indicating)

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Guest Anonymous Poster
another nutshell,

use a 3rd grade pvs list that filters out whole rooms, instead of polygons,

and then use real time "doorway frustum culling" eah, um, portal, to filter out the polygons that are in other rooms, but that you cant see becuase they arent in the way of the doorway frustum.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
i figure you could filter out the other room's polygons if they have no vertices in the doorway frustum that also dont span the frustum

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Guest Anonymous Poster
if i dont get anymroe hate on this topic,
im not in the middle of real nerds.

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