i learned bsp trees like one and a half years ago, and i can use my own 3d studio max geometry in them, and i feel smart, but ive been thinking, with all the time you spend making a level, couldnt one just place like indicator vertexes in each room that you can see from the room your currently designing? next time im done with a level, i think ill cut each room into a seperate mesh, find the bounding boxes for each of them(either aabb or obb) and use an manualy placed indicator PVS and get a pvs that way, for rooms and not individual polygons. and beyond that, id place sensor vertices on furnature corners in the rooms to see if they can reach the player position for visibility indication as well, cause bsps are alot of digital crap! and i hate them. (oh and its going to be 3 weeks before i get back to makign levels, im working on a cookie cutter character generator right now) am i being a buttface? to me bsp trees seem like a gigantic peice of god awful complexity that some nerd addicted to asprin came up with. if this doesnt sound way to stupid, i wanted to bring it up. after i get done with my character generator in liek 3 more weeks, imna invent, um, MPVtrees (manualy placed visibility trees, yeah thats it)