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Michalson

A reminder for posting in For Beginners

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This forum is for beginners ("newbies") to ask questions without being slapped around because someone more experienced decides they should already know the answer. If you want to make a reply ask yourself: - Am I being helpful? (Yes) - Am I guiding them in the right direction if they are misguided? (Yes) - Am I taunting them, flaming them or insulting them because they didn't know the answer, didn't know the supporting material or just seemed lost? (NO!) People who abuse the purpose of this forum will be punished - warning level increases, suspensions and in the case of sysmatic flaming, bans will be handed out for all offenses. There will be no discussion as to the merit of your post - excuses of posts being a joke, or that the poster deserved it will fall on deaf ears.

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I support your proposal, as I agree it's unjust and impolite to be rude needlessly, especially here in the newbie forum, but I was under the impression that the rating system was designed for this purpose? Is this stricter treatment for this forum only? I sort of hope it spans to the other forums as well.

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Original post by serratemplar
I support your proposal, as I agree it's unjust and impolite to be rude needlessly, especially here in the newbie forum, but I was under the impression that the rating system was designed for this purpose? Is this stricter treatment for this forum only? I sort of hope it spans to the other forums as well.


A) Not a proposal. This is how it has always been and will continue to be, it is the purpose stated by Dave when he first created this forum. I am simple reiterating it due to some activity not in line with this (hence the subject, "reminder")

B) The rating system was designed to reduce crap posting and encourage productive behavoir; ratings are not a rule, but a gentle prod in the right direction. The rules in For Beginners are absolute, not suggestions.

This does not extend to other forums. While similar rules exist for all forums, there is some degree of "grey", in both the definition of breach and in punishment to be decided by moderators on a case by case basis. In For Beginners there is no grey - if you post anything resembling a flame or insult, you will be punished.

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Quote:
Original post by Rhaal
Does posting the comics count?


While you might use your own judgement, I would suggest against it. The GD comic is meant to be funny, and in most cases it is joking about something, whether it be an absurdity, a common nitpick, etc. Posting a joke in a For Beginners question is very unlikely to be helpful to the OP. More likely, the comic would ridicule that person - which no matter how light is the exact thing this forum is not supposed to be.

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Bravo and big kudos to the Gamedev staff!

The beginner's forum is for beginners. As written in one of the more recent posts here (by Vampyre_Dark) nobody is asking anybody to go out of their way to look in this section to be inconvenienced by newcomers who are just asking for directions.

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Yeah well done! Too often do I see a new person who wants to make games getting flamed because of their lack of knowledge on the subject. Obviously these people who do the flaming were just born with the knowledge and did not start at the bottom.

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This is something that has messed up this forum for a lot of people. Luckilly, there were those who understood the point of it, and I'm glas you clearified it for those who still don't.

Newbies need help, so they post here. Not because they're stupid idiots.

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Original post by Pipo DeClown
Newbies need help, so they post here. Not because they're stupid idiots.


Correct. and if they need help, be so friendly to give them help. the only reason for not helping is if they are not friendly (swears excetra). i KNOW it looks incredibly fun if someone tells he wants to create something near the level of quacke for his first game, but PLEASE tell him its not gonna happen instead of laughing :)

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Original post by Rhaal
I am not all for moderators searching through pages and pages of post history in light of this, after the fact, and issuing penalties.


Unless you have drawn attention on yourself by acting like a jerk, it's highly unlikely mods would bother going over your history to see if you've flamed somebody two years ago.

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Grim: game programming is very complex, so make sure you get a good (1000+ pages) book about it

Samaanc: my best advice is also a good book (only if you dont get what you are doing, or if you arent a ligh on programming yet) but further, people even learn new stuff after 20 years of programming :) especially if thet create 3d games. that changes so fast, that you are continuesly learning :)

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Quote:
Original post by Red Falcon
Grim: game programming is very complex, so make sure you get a good (1000+ pages) book about it


Page count is in no way a quality metric. I'd much rather have a short, dense book than pages after pages of inane filler and IDE screenshots.

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to add on the "being helpfull" part maybe a "don't confuse newbees with detail" could be added i mean how many time do they have to get soo many diferent answers? look at any what language to use thread & imagine the newbee's head when he gets told there are 56652541235413 choice & to pick by himself depending on his needs

here's a clue for those that forgot theyr newbee times those people want to start making games they don't "know" how to pick it by themselves & whilst other choices can make sence (& thus are an option) i have yet to see someone disagree that C++ is a good choice... now remember no one cares if there are other good choices but this one being pretty much agreed everywhere... couldn't this be a rule to tell every newbee who ask what language to start with that they should start with c++?

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Quote:
Original post by Fruny
Quote:
Original post by Red Falcon
Grim: game programming is very complex, so make sure you get a good (1000+ pages) book about it


Page count is in no way a quality metric. I'd much rather have a short, dense book than pages after pages of inane filler and IDE screenshots.


it was just an example to tell programming isnt something that is very easy. i hopes it would get out things: I want to create HALO3 for my first program :)

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Quote:
Original post by ranakor
to add on the "being helpfull" part maybe a "don't confuse newbees with detail" could be added i mean how many time do they have to get soo many diferent answers? look at any what language to use thread & imagine the newbee's head when he gets told there are 56652541235413 choice & to pick by himself depending on his needs

here's a clue for those that forgot theyr newbee times those people want to start making games they don't "know" how to pick it by themselves & whilst other choices can make sence (& thus are an option) i have yet to see someone disagree that C++ is a good choice... now remember no one cares if there are other good choices but this one being pretty much agreed everywhere... couldn't this be a rule to tell every newbee who ask what language to start with that they should start with c++?


A better approach would be to first get a grasp of what the noob is trying to do, then suggest a language based on that.

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well the "noob" is usually either "trying to make whatever small game & climb up the ladder" in wich case c++ is fine or he is "trying to make the bestest MMORPG where you can do everything" in wich case it's no problem because i assume the shiva engine supports c++

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Quote:
Original post by ranakor
well the "noob" is usually either "trying to make whatever small game & climb up the ladder" in wich case c++ is fine or he is "trying to make the bestest MMORPG where you can do everything" in wich case it's no problem because i assume the shiva engine supports c++


A lot of times, that is the case, but it wouldn't be right forcing a language on every new person.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Rhaal
Quote:
Original post by ranakor
well the "noob" is usually either "trying to make whatever small game & climb up the ladder" in wich case c++ is fine or he is "trying to make the bestest MMORPG where you can do everything" in wich case it's no problem because i assume the shiva engine supports c++


A lot of times, that is the case, but it wouldn't be right forcing a language on every new person.


but you're not "forcing" anything on them you're just giving them advice & i feel that (no matter how good it may be or even if god itself came to bless it) it's flat out wrong to tell them (in the newbee case i described) to try anything else then c++ (or eventually c) to start & that all the mixed answers do a lot more damage then guiding them on a single path (even if it blinds them about the other ones) & c / c++ is the best choice in a one advice only solution in that while languages war will always happen it both fits theyr needs AND is the one they are most likely to get support with HERE (note that they are asking HERE what to use so odds are they'll come here for help too..) & is the one most fit to games overall if they decide to go professional...

all i'm saying is by not generalizing newbees instead of having 1% special case get frustrated you actually frustrate both the 1% & the 99 other % who are not interested in :

-programming in X86 assembler
-making games that are even more rock solid then nuclear reactor software
-having theyr games run on platform they didn't even ever hear off before they posted here

those people are starting give them a starter opinion...that leads to where 99% of there "DO" want to get to

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