I always feel like cheating when I use a compiler. Actually, almost every time I code, I make full use of anything available to me that might save development time by providing things I would otherwise need to implement. Computer programming is all about cheating: that's why people alway make a fuss about code reusal, that so many "methods" for increasing productivity appear. Nobody wants to reinvent anything that has already been done.
Always look at programmers this way: if a coder decides not to use a feature only because he can do the same thing by hand, or if he brags about how much he DID work reimplementing things that were already there, he might not have the best programmer mentality. The one that brags about how little code he had to write for a project, or how he made a clever use of existent features to ease his work, is the one to admire.
Ideally, given a project, a good programmer should always look for an existing solution before even thinking of his own. Or so I believe.
I feel like I am cheating.
with your logic we should all write our games with 1's and 0's.
IMO, i like to have absolute full control of my game / program. C++ and libraries like SDL and OpenGL give me complete control over everything i need, this is as low level as i'd like to get. low enough to push around instructions and memory all i want but high enough so that i dont have to write machine or per pixel code myself.
IMO, i like to have absolute full control of my game / program. C++ and libraries like SDL and OpenGL give me complete control over everything i need, this is as low level as i'd like to get. low enough to push around instructions and memory all i want but high enough so that i dont have to write machine or per pixel code myself.
You can always go back to DOS and program in Mode 13.
Oh, blitting is just copying pixels from one source to a destination, no more than that.
Oh, blitting is just copying pixels from one source to a destination, no more than that.
Although it is good to learn how things work, don't kid yourself thinking that using an API is anywhere near using programs like gamemaker(not that I disrespect people that use them).
Let's take for example OpenGL. When you're starting, you think that you just follow the rules and OpenGL takes care of everything. You just define the object geometry, and all you have to do is turn on lighting and texturing, and magic happens.
While this is true for simple apps, when you get more advanced and understand things a little better(some knowledge of low-level procedures like rasterizing or texturing wouldn't hurt) you'll see that OpenGL is just an interface between you and the graphics card: rules become much more loose, you must be creative. For advanced lighting and shadowing for example, most work is up to you, OpenGL just offers some necessary resources(shading languages, interpolators, stencil buffers, z-testing and such).
Let's take for example OpenGL. When you're starting, you think that you just follow the rules and OpenGL takes care of everything. You just define the object geometry, and all you have to do is turn on lighting and texturing, and magic happens.
While this is true for simple apps, when you get more advanced and understand things a little better(some knowledge of low-level procedures like rasterizing or texturing wouldn't hurt) you'll see that OpenGL is just an interface between you and the graphics card: rules become much more loose, you must be creative. For advanced lighting and shadowing for example, most work is up to you, OpenGL just offers some necessary resources(shading languages, interpolators, stencil buffers, z-testing and such).
Quote:Original post by zergdeath1
No, Im just saying that, we as programmers (notice how I try to include my self with the higher level people), generaly look down on those who use game makers.
I don't. I'll only look down on someone who made a really crappy game. And if he's a noob then not even then.
Quote:Original post by zergdeath1So basically we look down on them becuase they use something someone else made, and are taking the easy way, making somtimes decent games, and claiming that they "programed it". But we/I use SDL whitch is a library made by some one else, basically for games.
Like someone else said, you are also using a compiler, probably soom apps to make your graphics, etc. That's not cheating, it's called using a tool. And unless you program with a hex editor directly in machine code, you'll always be using a tool.
shmoove
Quote:Original post by shmooveQuote:Original post by zergdeath1
No, Im just saying that, we as programmers (notice how I try to include my self with the higher level people), generaly look down on those who use game makers.
I don't. I'll only look down on someone who made a really crappy game. And if he's a noob then not even then.Quote:Original post by zergdeath1So basically we look down on them becuase they use something someone else made, and are taking the easy way, making somtimes decent games, and claiming that they "programed it". But we/I use SDL whitch is a library made by some one else, basically for games.
Like someone else said, you are also using a compiler, probably soom apps to make your graphics, etc. That's not cheating, it's called using a tool. And unless you program with a hex editor directly in machine code, you'll always be using a tool.
shmoove
Isn't the hex editor a tool?
(rhetorical [smile])
Programming is all about building on something else. There are some arrogant individuals that look down on people whom use different languages or whatever - thing is it's all a matter of taste. Languages are just tools, and different tools can be used to make the same end result.
Where would you stop? Hundreds of people have worked on different technology putting in thousands of hours just so you don't have to do something from scratch... meaning you can spend more time on designing and making your game great; and less time worrying about details.
People are often better drivers if they understand some things about how a car works, but that doesn't mean they need to build one themselves. Think "Pimp my ride" they start off with something basic - it may even seem a bit constraining, and make something unique out of it... with varying degrees of engineering. They never usually touch the framework. Things like DirectX, SDL, whatever just provide a framework to enable you to make something special.
Where would you stop? Hundreds of people have worked on different technology putting in thousands of hours just so you don't have to do something from scratch... meaning you can spend more time on designing and making your game great; and less time worrying about details.
People are often better drivers if they understand some things about how a car works, but that doesn't mean they need to build one themselves. Think "Pimp my ride" they start off with something basic - it may even seem a bit constraining, and make something unique out of it... with varying degrees of engineering. They never usually touch the framework. Things like DirectX, SDL, whatever just provide a framework to enable you to make something special.
Ok I get the point. Thx I just couldn't shake the feeling. And when I said we look down on gamemakers. I didn't mean that we were superior, but that we would perfer that they took the time to learn the right way, and not clog up boards.(ya I know that doesn't really happen at gamedev.)
Quote:Original post by zergdeath1
No, Im just saying that, we as programmers (notice how I try to include my self with the higher level people), generaly look down on those who use game makers.
Software engineers > programmers > game maker people.
Programmers look down upon people who use someone else's libraries. Software engineers look up to people who use the best tool for the job.
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