"You could make that in an hour with Flash!!!111"
Author
Hi,
I was trying out one of those games from a 72-hour contest. The game was about pirates - you had a ship and ye had to get to towns, kill other ships, etc. Very cool, IMHO - especially for a 72-hour game.
Another person from class (doing application developer, he should know better) was watching and laughed at it, saying that those people would never get any further in game development because it was so simple and blah blah, and one could make it in an hour with the almighty.. FLASH.
Now, I know that his arguments have no meaning at all in this case: like you are getting a programmers job with only Flash experience, or HTML for that matter - /me looks at comic. Also the one-hour statement is increadibly stupid. Even the graphics alone would not do that.
So, thanks for having my rant, but how do you feel about such things?
taking "such things" very broadly, i think people should think just a little bit before talking crap.
I'd have punched that idiot in the face. I'm not saying that to ride the doogle meme. I'd have seriously hit the jerk with the clue-by-four.
If you feel like doing something illegal, you can always crack into your school's systems and change all his marks to failing ones. Of course, if he thinks that anyone can make a game in Flash in an hour, such action probably isn't required.
If you feel like doing something illegal, you can always crack into your school's systems and change all his marks to failing ones. Of course, if he thinks that anyone can make a game in Flash in an hour, such action probably isn't required.
Just ignore these dumbasses.
There were numerous times in my communications class(It wasn’t a programming class, just general computer stuff like web design and animation) when I’d be working on a game or something and the zealot n00bs around me would try to defend their beloved programs like Flash that they barely knew how to use.
Example 1: Programming scrolling racing game
n00b: “Your game sucks I could do that in like five minutes with Flash.”
me: “Well it’s only taken me an hour and programming gives a lot more control then scripting”
me: “Plus it’s not a real application people will need the Flash player”
me: “So do you know ActionScript?”
n00b: “No.”
*This is where I move to another computer*
Example 2: Direct3D Particle engine
n00b 1: “You typed in all that code and that’s all it does? I could do that in Flash in about ten minutes”
(I had typed in twenty lines in five minutes)
n00b 2: “Yeah or HTML”
*I’m trying not to laugh*
me: “It only took me five minutes and HTML is a web scripting language not a programming language like C++”
n00b 2: “HTML and javascript can do a lot more then C++”
*I have to move again*
The worst part of the class was our teacher. She was twice as dumb as the dumbest kid in the class.
student: “What did you make your web page in Frontpage or Dreamweaver?”
me: “You should learn how to use HTML”
teacher: “HTML will never take off its too hard to use. Most websites are made with Frontpage”
me: “But all Frontpage and Dreamweaver do is export HTML code which is a markup language for web pages”
teacher: “No they save .com files”
Also she had a copy of "Frontpage for dummies" on her desk and when kids asked for help she would go over find out their problem, then she would run back and look it up so she could shout out the answer trying to look smart.
Edit: Not to turn this into a browser war but I've run into the same problem using Opera in class. Most of the computers in my high school were infected with tons of spyware making using IE(I think it was only version 4) next to impossible. Yet no matter how frustrated the students(or even teachers) got with it they would always defend it.
Edit #2: Just incase some of you got the wrong idea I don't have anything against people making games with Flash(or using IE), I just hate these zealots that think they're so great when they don't even know what they're taking about.
[Edited by - Scet on December 9, 2004 6:14:12 PM]
There were numerous times in my communications class(It wasn’t a programming class, just general computer stuff like web design and animation) when I’d be working on a game or something and the zealot n00bs around me would try to defend their beloved programs like Flash that they barely knew how to use.
Example 1: Programming scrolling racing game
n00b: “Your game sucks I could do that in like five minutes with Flash.”
me: “Well it’s only taken me an hour and programming gives a lot more control then scripting”
me: “Plus it’s not a real application people will need the Flash player”
me: “So do you know ActionScript?”
n00b: “No.”
*This is where I move to another computer*
Example 2: Direct3D Particle engine
n00b 1: “You typed in all that code and that’s all it does? I could do that in Flash in about ten minutes”
(I had typed in twenty lines in five minutes)
n00b 2: “Yeah or HTML”
*I’m trying not to laugh*
me: “It only took me five minutes and HTML is a web scripting language not a programming language like C++”
n00b 2: “HTML and javascript can do a lot more then C++”
*I have to move again*
The worst part of the class was our teacher. She was twice as dumb as the dumbest kid in the class.
student: “What did you make your web page in Frontpage or Dreamweaver?”
me: “You should learn how to use HTML”
teacher: “HTML will never take off its too hard to use. Most websites are made with Frontpage”
me: “But all Frontpage and Dreamweaver do is export HTML code which is a markup language for web pages”
teacher: “No they save .com files”
Also she had a copy of "Frontpage for dummies" on her desk and when kids asked for help she would go over find out their problem, then she would run back and look it up so she could shout out the answer trying to look smart.
Edit: Not to turn this into a browser war but I've run into the same problem using Opera in class. Most of the computers in my high school were infected with tons of spyware making using IE(I think it was only version 4) next to impossible. Yet no matter how frustrated the students(or even teachers) got with it they would always defend it.
Edit #2: Just incase some of you got the wrong idea I don't have anything against people making games with Flash(or using IE), I just hate these zealots that think they're so great when they don't even know what they're taking about.
[Edited by - Scet on December 9, 2004 6:14:12 PM]
He sounds like a dick, but he's right. Ish. One hour's probably too low an estimate, but it depends on the game.
There's no sense in using anything but the most suitable tool for the job, and Flash is becoming suitable for an increasingly large number of jobs.
There's no sense in using anything but the most suitable tool for the job, and Flash is becoming suitable for an increasingly large number of jobs.
Author
Quote:Original post by superpig
He sounds like a dick, but he's right. Ish. One hour's probably too low an estimate, but it depends on the game.
There's no sense in using anything but the most suitable tool for the job, and Flash is becoming suitable for an increasingly large number of jobs.
I can say that even making the graphics would take more time - I think. I'm not an artist, however.
Quote:Original post by Scet
student: “What do you make your web page in Frontpage or Dreamweaver?”
me: “You should learn how to use HTML”
teacher: “HTML will never take off its too hard to use. Most websites are made with Frontpage”
me: “But all Frontpage and Dreamweaver do is export HTML code which is a markup language for web pages”
teacher: “No they save .com files”
lol
That's why I'm glad I'm usually surrounded by either people who don't know anything about computers (and don't pretend they do) or other programmers.
Currently, I make games in flash. The reasons I do this: A) I don't have to write any rendering code, B) I can get the core functionality of the game done rather quickly (a few hours), C) the games I write aren't that complicated, and so don't need to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of a machine, and D) flash is getting pretty darn cross-platform.
But flash, naturally, is not the "silver bullet" that some people make it out to be. Yes, flash is well suited to small scale abstract games like the ones that I make. The game I link to above took about 6 hours to bring it to the condition it is now in (which is functionally complete, but not completely done). If I were starting from zero in C++, it would take a great deal longer than that. Of course, if I were writing in C++, I wouldn't be starting at zero as I have my libraries and application frameworks to rely on. It would take me about 8-10 hours to make in C++, and I would then not be a slave to the framerate(an aspect of flash that one always has to work around).
But I have run into the weaknesses of flash, to be sure. For example this game. If you click this link, click the circular button on the lower left of the display until the board is 16x16, then click the checkmark button.
This game does a simple thing, really... it generates a 16x16 maze. However, flash actionscript does not have the horsepower to do this in a single frame, so I had to work around this limitation and make the level generation take multiple frames(a handful of nodes are create per frame). In C++, the equivalent code doesn't take a noticable amount of time.
But your story of the flash-disciple reminds me of an interchange I once had with Ron Penton. We were talking about games, and he was "poo-poo"ing my talk of simple games like MineSweeper. His quote was much to the effect of "I could make minesweeper in five minutes". Hattan and I then proceeded to rag him about this for a while. I personally have made minesweeper (it takes several hours, by the way).
In that same conversation with Ron, I also mentioned that I could make a game called "Click the Yellow Rhombus", and that it would be fun. I did wind up making the game, and you can play it here.
But flash, naturally, is not the "silver bullet" that some people make it out to be. Yes, flash is well suited to small scale abstract games like the ones that I make. The game I link to above took about 6 hours to bring it to the condition it is now in (which is functionally complete, but not completely done). If I were starting from zero in C++, it would take a great deal longer than that. Of course, if I were writing in C++, I wouldn't be starting at zero as I have my libraries and application frameworks to rely on. It would take me about 8-10 hours to make in C++, and I would then not be a slave to the framerate(an aspect of flash that one always has to work around).
But I have run into the weaknesses of flash, to be sure. For example this game. If you click this link, click the circular button on the lower left of the display until the board is 16x16, then click the checkmark button.
This game does a simple thing, really... it generates a 16x16 maze. However, flash actionscript does not have the horsepower to do this in a single frame, so I had to work around this limitation and make the level generation take multiple frames(a handful of nodes are create per frame). In C++, the equivalent code doesn't take a noticable amount of time.
But your story of the flash-disciple reminds me of an interchange I once had with Ron Penton. We were talking about games, and he was "poo-poo"ing my talk of simple games like MineSweeper. His quote was much to the effect of "I could make minesweeper in five minutes". Hattan and I then proceeded to rag him about this for a while. I personally have made minesweeper (it takes several hours, by the way).
In that same conversation with Ron, I also mentioned that I could make a game called "Click the Yellow Rhombus", and that it would be fun. I did wind up making the game, and you can play it here.
Quote:Original post by Scet
student: “What did you make your web page in Frontpage or Dreamweaver?”
me: “You should learn how to use HTML”
teacher: “HTML will never take off its too hard to use. Most websites are made with Frontpage”
me: “But all Frontpage and Dreamweaver do is export HTML code which is a markup language for web pages”
teacher: “No they save .com files”
This made me immediately think of "Homestarrunner.net: It's dot com!"
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