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Unity [java] Java compilers/editors (which to use?)

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I am looking for suggestions on which Java compiler and editor I should use. I am running Windows XP Home Edition. I'm new to Java programming (excluding my university "education"), so bear with me. -- JAVA EDITOR -- Dmytry meantioned "scite". If I have this straight, scite is just a text editor and a config file (Dmytry posted one in this thread) sets it to code Java more effectively. This must be it: http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html This seems to work fine, unless you have another suggestion. -- JAVA COMPILER -- Dmytry posted a huge list of Java compilers: http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/java.shtml I am lost with this list. It would be greatly appreciate if you can suggest which compiler to use. It would save me time testing out various compilers (when I have no experience.) ... For those who care, I need to test out some "Improved" Perlin Noise using the *exact* code Ken Perlin used to properly determine the range of Perlin Noise. [Edited by - Doucette on December 15, 2004 10:58:05 AM]

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Quote:
Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
i use JCreator.
simple and easy to use. not as robust as NetBeans though.
Thanks for the suggestion. This must be its website: jcreator.com. (It's a very professional looking site!) There are two versions, PRO and LE. PRO has a 30 day trial demo and is $69 USD to buy. LE is freeware (must submit an email address).

Is JCreator only an IDE? If so, what compiler do you recommend?

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For the compiler, just use the one that comes with Sun's Java SDK. Unless you're doing something specialised, there isn't much reason to use another one. I've used IBM's Jikes in a project before because the compiler runs slightly faster, but Sun's 1.5 compiler is quicker now.



As for editing Java code, I just use my favourite text editor (TextPad in Windows and Kate in Linux) with Sun's command-line tools and Makefiles. As long as your editor has good syntax highlighting, grouping files up into projects etc. it means you can use the same interface for whatever programming language you're using. For example, I'd hate to have to download, try and learn several different IDEs when I switch between C, Java, C++, PHP, Perl etc. It stops you becoming dependant on a certain GUI interface and it's also easier when you are using different languages together in one project. You might want to take a look at Eclipse and JEdit though if you really want a IDE.

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Quote:
Original post by seanw
As for editing Java code, I just use my favourite text editor (TextPad in Windows and Kate in Linux) with Sun's command-line tools and Makefiles. As long as your editor has good syntax highlighting, grouping files up into projects etc. it means you can use the same interface for whatever programming language you're using. For example, I'd hate to have to download, try and learn several different IDEs when I switch between C, Java, C++, PHP, Perl etc. It stops you becoming dependant on a certain GUI interface and it's also easier when you are using different languages together in one project. You might want to take a look at Eclipse and JEdit though if you really want a IDE.
Thanks for the insight.

I regularly use MSVC++'s IDE (I guess it would actually be Microsoft Visual C++ .NET's IDE). If I can get away with using my MSVC++ IDE, then that is good enough for me.

Quote:
Original post by seanw
For the compiler, just use the one that comes with Sun's Java SDK. Unless you're doing something specialised, there isn't much reason to use another one. I've used IBM's Jikes in a project before because the compiler runs slightly faster, but Sun's 1.5 compiler is quicker now.
I'm doing nothing specialized. I want the most often used 'standard' compiler. So, this is what I should get:

Java 2 Platform, Standard Edition, v 1.4.2 (J2SE)
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html

From the above link, the first link (Download J2SE v 1.4.2_04 SDK with NetBeans 3.6 Bundle) ships the SDK with the netBeans IDE. It is 92.79 MB! This may take some time on my less-than-56k connection. Is netBeans worth trying over my MSVC++ IDE?

The second link (no direct link to post) ships just the SDK (Java(TM) 2 SDK, Standard Edition 1.4.2_06). I guess this is what you want if you do not want to use netBeans. It is 51.59 MB!

Quote:
Original post by marcels
you may give a try to eclipse, it is very popular
Eclipse seems similar to SciTE. (They are two general IDEs for editing various types of code.) Which is best?! (I am trying to avoid downloading and testing everything myself, so I just want opinions. I hope this is OK.)

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I'm using IBM's Jikes. Very small compiler, works just great, i downloaded it when i had insanely high pricing of internet access... and i use SciTE for Java, HTML, and PHP editing.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Wow. How could anyone possibly think Scite is similar to eclipse?


Eclipse is ... almost MSVC++, but converted to java's way of working (packages are supported in clever ways etc), with extra bits added.

Netbeans is ... an attempt to build all the same features, but using a modular plugins system like JEdit

JEdit is ... an attempt to make a modern, GUI, pluggable modular text editor that can be converted to doing anything. Basically: Emacs, but easier to use, using scripted java instead of scripted LISP.

IDEA is ... just like eclipse, but commercial, and better in some ways, worse in others.

More java developers use Eclipse than anything else. I have a suspicion that more use Eclipse than all the others mentioned above combined. Eclipse is the *youngest* of the above IDEs; it's popularity is immense.

Unfortunately, it's got lots of bugs, and has lots of pissing little problems that can easily put you off. However, it is undeniable that Eclipse has the best future of all the currently available free IDE's, and probably better than all the commercial ones simply because being free it's going to dominate the market.

i.e. get Eclipse now, get used to it now, and as you upgrade through later versions you'll soon have an IDE that is better than all the others.

PS: why is it called Eclipse? Because netbeans was invented by Sun, and netbeans was until very recently utter crap, and "an eclipse" == "over-shadowing of the sun".

This actually says a lot about what eclipse aims to be (it thinks Big) and where people expect it to go. The latest NB fights back, but is it too little, too late? Even with the official Sun support?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
PS: eclipse annoys me. I hate it. But ... it's the best free IDE I've ever used, and it's as good - or better - as a lot of very expensive (think thousands of dollars) commercial ones I've had licensed for me by previous employers.

THe main problem is that it's bugs are all annoying little thigns, like a bug in how it pasts comments, which deletes the indentation in the first line of the comment. You get pissed on by this bug 5 times a day, but in the grand scheme of things it is utterly unimportant.

So. Using eclipse is irritating, but it has incredible time-saving features, and at the same time it lacks the major or dangerous bugs and problems of other "big" IDE's (in particular it's so much faster than all previous netbeans it's enough to make NB users cry...)

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Get the latest sdk/jdk (java 5.0) http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/download.jsp but not with netbeans if you are as you said on a slow connection. Maybe crimson editor might be a solution? Its a "source editor" its free and rather small (1224KB)to download. http://www.crimsoneditor.com/

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Use compiler shipped with the J2SE, the standard compiler, why bother to use else?

For the editor I use/recommend GEL.
If you use less-than-56k connection, it's worth to try it!
The size is quite small, it light, and very fast, cos it's native executable, the downside is: you must be under Windows OS to use it.

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Discussion IDEs are hard when there are so many to choose. It is almost like asking which HTML editor is the best. Most people find one they like and stick to it (I still use Notepad for HTML editing). So it is difficult to judge what is best unless you really have experienced (almost) everything.

Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Wow. How could anyone possibly think Scite is similar to eclipse?
Oops. I meant they were similar in the sense that they both were "universal" editors. I did not actually download it. It was the first thing I read upon visiting eclipse.org.

Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
More java developers use Eclipse than anything else. I have a suspicion that more use Eclipse than all the others mentioned above combined.
After reading everyone's helpful posts, (and judged only on those posts) it appears Eclipse with Sun's compiler. I just want to use whatever the majority of everyone else uses. It makes it simple and reduces discrepancies.

[I may be replying to a different Anonymous Poster from here on...]

Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
PS: eclipse annoys me. I hate it.

[cut]

THe main problem is that it's bugs are all annoying little thigns, like a bug in how it pasts comments, which deletes the indentation in the first line of the comment. You get pissed on by this bug 5 times a day, but in the grand scheme of things it is utterly unimportant.
OFF TOPIC: That is why sticking to the "standards" is so important. Check out this quote:

Quote:
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/fog0000000249.html

I've seen companies where management prides themselves on doing things deliberately differently from Microsoft. "Just because Microsoft does it, doesn't mean it's right," they brag, and then proceed to create a gratuitously different user interface from the one that people are used to.
Keep reading from there, Joel goes into more detail.

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Eclipse. 2nd Java editor I tried (after Boreland's JBuilder) and I am still in love.
Yes, like AP says, it has bugs/features and some things just annoy you (CTRL-F is not find. Tab does not flip through the Tabs) but the features are very nice.
It is 100% configurable even down to how you like your style of {}.

I have fallen totally for the "macros" i.e. you write systrace and hit ctrl-space and it changes that to System.out.println("ClassName:methodname()");
Not to mention the refactoring and "encase with try-catch block".
And I fear I have not even scratched the surface.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
I generally agree with most of the posts so far. I have used JEdit, JCreator, CodeWarrior, NetBeans, JBuilder(though not the latest version), various text editors, and probably a few others I can't think of right now...and Eclipse is my favorite by far. It does have its problems, but I found it to be the most comfortable and fastest development environment. I code almost exclusively in Java, so I can't comment on how it handles other languages, but there are quite a few plug-ins available for C++ and others.

I have always used Sun's standard compiler, and have had no problems. If you choose that, I would try version 1.5 rather than 1.4.2. 1.5 is supposed to be faster, and you can always compile for a previous version if you need to.

Hope this helps a bit.

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Everyone is going to laugh at me here, but I still use BlueJ. Thank god my monitor supports a high enough resolution that I can fit most of those graphical classes on screen. I tried netbeans, but got annoyed with it. I d/l a trial of jbuilder, but it wouldn't install. Kept looping through the part where you designate an install path.

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I'm using Netbeans 3.6 and Java 1.5 for Windows and Linux (got a fast internet connection at my uni so I got everything I needed for Java).
Just to say, if you're using Netbeans, make sure you have atleast 256 meg ram! Otherwise you're going to suffer short periods of garbage collection.
Well I have used Gell before but I like netbeans 3.6 better (its much more stable than netbeans 3.5.1).

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@phaelax: You should really give eclipse a try. It's the best IDE that I've come across so far. Refactoring rules and the way the who platform is built is really something else, especially when you start to dabble with plugins for it.

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Quote:
Original post by Doucette
Thanks for the insight.

I regularly use MSVC++'s IDE (I guess it would actually be Microsoft Visual C++ .NET's IDE). If I can get away with using my MSVC++ IDE, then that is good enough for me.


Just use what you're comfortable with, it's not really important in the grand scheme of things. Some people I know use vi, others use Eclipse, others use emacs etc. Java's a joy to work with if you've been using C++ for years and it's so much easier overall you don't really need a GUI IDE to automate things for you. The built in stack traces with line numbers, all behaviour being defined, exceptions on errors etc. mean you never have to use a GUI debugger in practice. Compiling and running programs is easy to do from the command-line (as in a GUI isn't required to compile complex programs) and the documentation is superb.

Quote:
Original post by seanw
I'm doing nothing specialized. I want the most often used 'standard' compiler. So, this is what I should get:

Java 2 Platform, Standard Edition, v 1.4.2 (J2SE)
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html


Java 1.5 came out a couple of months ago. It's got a few bugfixes, speed improvements and the new generics features.

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Java compiler - JDK 1.5

IDES
- Eclipse
- Code Slayer - my own custom IDE with visual code modelling and auto generation of infrastrure solutions in DB / XML / XSD / Raw.

:-)

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Quote:
Original post by role
Hmm I'm not sure you can manage download the SDK (50 megs) with Eclipse (80 megs) with your less-than-56k internet connection :-)
I'm still downloading them!

Quote:
Original post by seanw
Java 1.5 came out a couple of months ago. It's got a few bugfixes, speed improvements and the new generics features.
I noticed that. They call it "JDK 5.0". Java 1.4.2 is called, "J2SE v 1.4.2_06" Why the change in format?

...

Now, I just started using NetBeans and I am already getting frustrated with all the little things that do not behave the same way every other Windows programs behaves. Such little things matter so much.

"A user interface is well-designed when the program behaves exactly how the user thought it would." - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/global/English/uibook/chapters/1.html

[Edited by - Doucette on December 21, 2004 2:05:50 PM]

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