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THE IMPOSSIBLE

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Before i became anything that involved 3d i would post on sites about this game idea. Or i would see other people posting about the same idea. And wow were they shot down. Mainly because they didnt have screen shots. Or any thing else to explain when asked. Well i started working on a game. And now after building a small nieborhood i wanna mess around with a team. So i posted in the help section. Luckly i got responce. So whos know maybe a small, small portion of my idea will come along and push other to keep attemping this huge plan. Game Idea Come on the game of life would be insane. driving places Hanging out with people. Doiing everything u can do in real life but on the computer. It would be like a whole second chance. I think it would be totally cool. Of course it would have to involce endless programming Endless nights of modeling and idea making. But Once the new gtaS came out i realize how close they were. If this game is still impossible I still dont mind giving it a shot. But here can u go to my small, like 4 screenshots page and let me know how You think im doing on the nieborhoods so far..Thanks Everyone. If you have any ideas let me know!!!

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Guest Anonymous Poster
A game liek secondlife would be very boring if a single player game. The whole point of secondlife was to be able to have another life interacting with real people in a virtual world in which you could afford big price items, visit places you may never see, etc.

Its more about interaction. What can the player do to occupy himself? shenmue (1 and 2) would be a better game to idolize for this sort of thing. Since you seem to want to stay ground to reality (ie not sensless violenece that gives gta its fun, not that there is anything wrong with that). All the content in the world is uselss if you cant interact with it. The limits you place on interaction directly relate to what the player feels he can do. Hanging out with friends at a pub is nice, but if they are just some npcs it because kinda of silly. Heck some might call it crazy since they are trying to chat it up with ai.

Pretty much you want to make an mmorpg with heavy emphasis on role playing in a contemporary enviroemnt (ie the present day blasville). Sims online does this too, you can look at that game as well.

(turn on devils advocate mode)
gta san andreas is not close to anything. Its merely fooling you (as a good game should). It allows you to roam a condensed city. you can drive cars of which are only rendered in your zone, not for the entire city. It dont matter since its the player ussually wont notice the cars becoming ghosts as soon as they leave the player sight. most npcs dont exist beyond walking around as filler and fodder for killing. The npcs you do interact with are scripted missons with no dialogue (ie the player does not make choices, the game scripts it all). Again nothing wrong with that, but far from free roaming your talking about interaction wise. you cant enter most buildings. again not a problem since most players would not care since they are too busy killing to notice.

Pretty much you need to set your expectations correctly. There is a HUGE difference in what gta offers and what the mmorpg secondlife offers. Heck just using gta and making it a mmorpg makes a HUGE difference. You need REAL ppl to play so friendships, hanging out, and all that other good stuff happens. npcs dont cut it yet (i am sure ai will eventually get there in a decade or two for decent chatting and role playing).

So start small, then work your way up. And seeing pictures of some neighborhood dont mean much to me. It shows you can model and make a 3d engine, not that you create compelling interactivity with the enviroment for the player to enjoy this second life. remember ppl play games to escape their life, and the real world.

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Original post by ifeelsodumbrightnow
Doiing everything u can do in real life but on the computer.


Why not do it in real life then?

I think you need to refine your idea a lot further. Just saying it's a 'real life sim' involves zero thought, is impossible, and probably wouldn't be all that interesting anyway. You need to figure out what the gameplay is going to be. "Real life but on a computer" isn't a game design, it's just lazy and not really all that great an idea anyway, IMHO.

GTA is fun precisely because it isn't like real life. Most of us don't run around breaking into cars and doing insanely suicidal stunts in them, driving like a maniac and blasting the limbs off innocent bystanders with a sniper rifle, safe in the knowledge that even if we get caught or killed, all we lose is a small amount of easily replaceable cash and a few guns. The designers picked an aspect of real life, made it simple and fun, and built a game around it.

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This all reminds me of the Red Dwarf book 'Better Than Life' [grin]

I agree with Sandman, games should be about escaping the normal bounds of reality and doing things that you can't do in real life such as shoot monsters, steal cars and solve crimes. To me a game based on life would be as dull as it got; if you don't like your life why would you play an alter-ego of yourself doing something fresh in the world of the game - why don't you take that time and energy and plough it into making your real life how you want it to be?

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WARNING: too much reality brings players with problems to estraniate from true reality, when your idea will be a game, many people will criticate it, and the wole videogame world will pay the conseguences.

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Original post by evolutional
This all reminds me of the Red Dwarf book 'Better Than Life' [grin]

I agree with Sandman, games should be about escaping the normal bounds of reality and doing things that you can't do in real life such as shoot monsters, steal cars and solve crimes. To me a game based on life would be as dull as it got; if you don't like your life why would you play an alter-ego of yourself doing something fresh in the world of the game - why don't you take that time and energy and plough it into making your real life how you want it to be?


I give you The Sims.

Nah, I don't understand it either.

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The reason a game like this doesn't work in single player is because no-one has emulated the randomness and emotional actions/re-actions of humans well enough yet. If I say Turing Test hopefully some people wil understand what I'm talking about.

There are only two reasons why playing something like second life only works with real people instead of NPCS -

1) People like to be better than other people. Doing better at somehting, owning a better house, having more money etc doesn't work against a computer. against a real person (be it online or in real life) is much more reqarding

2) The psychological fact that you're interacting with real people rather than a computer.

If you write an NPC that can interact with you exactly as a real person would, with emotional reactions, and non-linear thought processes, then you can fool someone into thinking they are interacting with a real person. And even if they know it's a NPC they will soon overcome the phsycological barriers.

Exmaple - in the 1st Matrix film, when Cypher is eating the steak, he knows it isn;t real and is only electrical signals sent directly to his brain. But he still enjoys eating it.

Environment is another one. In San Andreas, when you drive a car into a building, the building isn;t damaged. You don't get whiplash or crippling back pain or a broken leg.
But then if it was very realistic it wouldn't be much fun. Some rules of reality need to be ignored in games in order for them to be
a) Enjoyable
b) Not impossible
c) completable
d) Include acheivable goals

Not that I'm flaming anyone's idea here. I myself am working on making certain aspects of my game's design very realistic, including cause and effect, and very complicated NPC AI. I realise though that there is a fine line between ultra-realism and somehting that is unplayable. That line will be reached one day. Or maybe the Sims already did it :)

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Original post by cornflake
If I say Turing Test hopefully some people wil understand what I'm talking about.


You mean... there are people who don't know what the Turing Test is? ... you're kidding, right? :-P


eh... for those of you who don't know, it's where you have three computers in seperate rooms, a users at two of them, and AI running on the third. User A chats or plays a game with TestComputers A and B, and then tries to figure out which is the person, which is the AI. i'm sure that could be varied, but that's the basic idea of it.


not insulting anyone's intelligence, just thought it was worth an explanation. also, if i'm confusing my tests, please let me know so that i can feel like a jackass. thank you.

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You're right. There are a line of terminals, and behind each one is either a human or an AI program. Testers sit at each each terminal, and have conversations with the terminals, using text-based chat.

If a tester thinks that they are talking to a human, but it is actually a program, then the programmer wins lots of money - $500,000 or something. And infinite cred.

No-one has passed yet, although a few have come close.

The test was devised by Alan Turing in like the fifties or somehting. Some people say that when someone wins, that means Artificial Intelligence trully exists.

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Original post by ifeelsodumbrightnow
And wow were they shot down.

Well, where's the game in it? The problem is that most of Real Life (tm) only works because you get to interact with other real people. Going to a bar in real life can be fun. Doing it in a game is pointless. Studying serves a purpose in the real world. In a game, it'd be a waste of time. You wouldn't learn anything new. You wouldn't find anything that interested you. Being with your friends is fun, but playing a game where you're with some NPC's who's said to be your friends is less so.

And then there are all the parts of real life which are *not* fun. Would you enjoy a game where you had to spend 7 hours a day sleeping? And another 8'ish hours working? And an hour or two eating? Never mind the bathroom breaks.

Part of the problem is, as Cornflake mentioned, that it's currently impossible to simulate real people. Another, and bigger problem is that even if you could, it still wouldn't be all that interesting. Wouldn't you rather have a friend (or girlfriend) in real life, than one who only exists when you're at your computer?
A lot of the stuff we do in real life are social activities, that isn't really fun in itself, but serves to bring us together with other people, and have fun with them. If you take the "other people" out of teh equation, you're left with a boring activity.

GTA didn't come close to your idea. They did the only sensible thing. They carefullly picked out one interesting aspect of real life, exaggerated it, carefully tweaked it, and focused all their attention on that. They didn't sit down and say "Ok, lets come up with 500 real-life activities, no matter whether or not they're fun, and add them to our game".

Now, apart from the fact that the game wouldn't be worth playing, it also wouldn't be possible to make.
First, you'd need more processing power than currently exists on the planet (Rough estimate) to simulate something this complex. Second, you'd need to spend the next 50 years coding, and then another 200 years adding all the content, from furniture to weather, to people, to groceries.

Tell me one thing though. Why would you want to play something like this? Real Life is a lot better at being Real Life.

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