Why is it almost everyone would say an RPG _must_ have a story to be an RPG, where an FPS does not have to have a story to be an FPS? People always compare the RPG experience to being like reading a book. Why must this be so? If you want an RPG to be like a book, you can read a book. You don't even to deal w/ the stupid battles impeding the precious narrative. I'm not even really talking about interactivity vs. linearity. I'm more talking about why _must_ RPGs contain a heavy overwhelming narrative that dictates what's happening? PnP RPGs (wouldn't this be where the term RPG was first coined? I may be wrong.) did have a history of the world and so on, but when it came to the actual player's experiencing the game I don't think many DMs had a sequential narrative laid out. If Quake had absolutely no story (meaning narrative) people would not notice, and people would still like it. Yes, I am using the tactic of the elusive Landfish. I just think this all has to do w/ our pre-conceived notions on what an RPG is. ""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator "All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. Edited by - Nazrix on 10/22/00 6:23:05 PM

Hmmm, Landfish-style kung fu? Ah... Very powerful.

I think you''re right Nazrix. All that is required of a Role-playing Game is that the player Plays a Role. Now, story helps to define a role for the player, but it is by no means necessary.

However, all games without stories tend to bore me to tears. Maybe it''s just be, but I enjoy one, mebbe two matches of UT before I want to pass out from boredom. I can''t imagine the traditional RPG combat setup entertaining anyone for a minute flat without a driving story.

So, yeah, Naz. You''re right, but to what end?

See, I don't know about that role thing either. I mean, it could be said that in any game you're playing a role. In Quake you're playing a role of some guy who blows away everything in sight.

I think what you said before, LF, was right. We don't know WTF an RPG is, yet we use the word so freely.

Personally, I'm thinking of never using the term RPG again. It has lost all meaning (assuming it ever had meaning).




""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on October 22, 2000 7:39:55 PM

You have some points, Nazrix. I actually have an example to prove you right and another to prove you wrong. Pokémon was a relatively good game despite its utter lack of a plot. On the other hand is Quest 64. It had really nice graphics, cool special effects but next to no real story. That game made me gag. I was seriously considering sending a letter to THQ (was it them who made it?) to let them know how big a bag of crap that game was.

Personally though, I prefer my RPGs to have plots. It''s what makes me want to finish the game.

-Goku
SANE Productions Homepage

The fact is that there is no defining concept that makes one game fit in a particular genre.

I think genres are another name for just building on what other people have come up with. We all have said things like "it will be a [insert one of the many industry's genres] only it will [contain some concept that provides a slight twist on an already-created genre].

It seems that when we create a game using the concept of a genre, all that's happening is that we are saying "I'll use the basic premise of someone else's concept that has been given a name by the community then build on that."

There's a big difference between being inspired by someone's ideas, and using the basis of a genre as the heart of the game.

I was about to say FPS's and RTS's are more straightforward, but they are not. They're really in the same boat.




""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on October 22, 2000 8:10:02 PM

I think we should create games that evoke a certain emotion and forget about what the industry will call it. I know I am not the 1st to say this, but I just had to say it again

We should stop saying "This is what''s wrong w/ RPGs: blah blah" cause we don''t know what they are. We don''t know what makes an RPG an RPG or any other 3 letter initial for a genre.

We should just aim for a certain entitiy that our game will present to the audience and form everything toward that entity.



""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

quote:
So, yeah, Naz. You''re right, but to what end?

Ah ha! I used the elusive Landfish tecnique against you

From experience, I would say a roleplaying game in its truest nature is a game in which you control the main character''s (or main characters'') personality(ies). And what is the point of playing a personality without having a story to back it up? Also, how can a game that relies solely on numbers (that is, one which is about playing the numbers to their utmost advantage) really be considered on a parallel to games that lead you into a character''s view of the world, community, or state of being?

By that definition, games like Diablo, Quake, Command & Conquer, Pong, and so on, are not even remotely considerable as RPGs, though some might argue otherwise. Fallout was almost an RPG, the old SSI games were medieval strategy games. Secret of Mana was almost close, the older Final Fantasies were way off (bring on the flames!). Maybe I''m being overly critical and overly analytical, but it just bugs me to hell to know that so many factors -- related to the fact that computers make it easy to create wargames and slap "RPG" labels on them -- have turned the most artistic variation of electronic entertainment into little more than mathematical strategy.

MatrixCubed

Naz, I gave up the RPG quest long ago. i''m glad to see you have too.

Yes, LF, it's been eating at me for quite some time, and I finally have come to realize why.

We have all become so presumptuous as to what an RPG must contain, and it's all so subjective. I know you brought this up before LF, but it's finally hitting me w/ the same power as it did to you some months ago


""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on October 22, 2000 8:40:27 PM