Does Dx10 help Dx9 help Dx8..etc...?

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When MS releases a new version of DirectX, does it have any effect on the previous versions? I mean if you're using a certain function in DX8 and the DX9 counterpart has been improved, would the DX8 version also be improved? Or do they include EVERY EXACT older version of DirectX with each new release?

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 Original post by 2dcoderdo they include EVERY EXACT older version of DirectX with each new release?

Yes, they do.

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Original post by CoffeeMug
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 Original post by 2dcoderdo they include EVERY EXACT older version of DirectX with each new release?

Yes, they do.

DX10/DXNext/WGF 2.0 (or whatever you want to call it) is going to deviate from this. All of the binaries are getting so big (from ALL of the DX versions), that DX10 is going to start fresh by itself. This means that the D3D10.dll will not contain all previous versions of DirectX. The time is just prime to start a new generation of binaries, I guess.

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 circlesoftDX10/DXNext/WGF 2.0 (or whatever you want to call it) is going to deviate from this. All of the binaries are getting so big (from ALL of the DX versions), that DX10 is going to start fresh by itself. This means that the D3D10.dll will not contain all previous versions of DirectX. The time is just prime to start a new generation of binaries, I guess.

Just out of curiousity, where abouts did you get that information?

It makes sense, but I came to that conclusion by different means - more that WGF2 is likely to be longhorn only (its been stated several times that there are no more DirectX's till then), and by that logic it's good for them to "break away" for the simple case of avoiding backwards compatability in longhorn..

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Original post by CoffeeMug
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 Original post by 2dcoderdo they include EVERY EXACT older version of DirectX with each new release?

Yes, they do.

Isn't it also the general design of COM components, that their interfaces are backwards compatible?

Jack

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 Original post by jollyjeffersIsn't it also the general design of COM components, that their interfaces are backwards compatible?

Yes, it's one of the major design requirements of COM to ensure that interfaces are preserved across versions.

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Original post by evolutional
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 Original post by jollyjeffersIsn't it also the general design of COM components, that their interfaces are backwards compatible?

Yes, it's one of the major design requirements of COM to ensure that interfaces are preserved across versions.

Good good, at least my assumption wasn't flawed [grin]. I'm plenty happy enough to avoid the "low level" COM programming if I can - such that my knowledge isn't from experience, more from reading about it!

Cheers,
Jack

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Original post by jollyjeffers
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 circlesoftDX10/DXNext/WGF 2.0 (or whatever you want to call it) is going to deviate from this. All of the binaries are getting so big (from ALL of the DX versions), that DX10 is going to start fresh by itself. This means that the D3D10.dll will not contain all previous versions of DirectX. The time is just prime to start a new generation of binaries, I guess.

Just out of curiousity, where abouts did you get that information?

He's an MVP, so he gets kinda exclusive access to hot news [grin]

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 It makes sense, but I came to that conclusion by different means - more that WGF2 is likely to be longhorn only (its been stated several times that there are no more DirectX's till then), and by that logic it's good for them to "break away" for the simple case of avoiding backwards compatability in longhorn..

IIRC, I read somewhere that Avalon and WinFS are going to be released as service packs for XP, or something similar. So I don't think WGF2 is going to be longhorn only.

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 He's an MVP, so he gets kinda exclusive access to hot news

Alright for some! [smile] but I didn't think they were allowed to let us "mere mortals" know of this stuff if its not been publicly released?

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 IIRC, I read somewhere that Avalon and WinFS are going to be released as service packs for XP, or something similar. So I don't think WGF2 is going to be longhorn only.

ah, ok then. I read it was only WinFS that was running substantially late, but I could be wrong.

Still, the fact that they seem to be working on changing the name as well as dropping/moving components around (e.g. DirectPlay and DirectShow) seems more of a plausible reason for making it a new product.

Anyway, I think I'm "arguing" the same conclusion here so I'll give up and go to bed. Thankfully its friday tomorrow and I can justify a liquid lunch at work [grin][grin][grin]

Jack

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Original post by jollyjeffers
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 He's an MVP, so he gets kinda exclusive access to hot news

Alright for some! [smile] but I didn't think they were allowed to let us "mere mortals" know of this stuff if its not been publicly released?

*cough* I'm not really sure *cough* The development of Longhorn seems to be much more community oriented than Microsoft's previous OS's, so we keep the community informed on little issues like this. [smile]

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 Original post by jollyjeffersAlright for some! [smile] but I didn't think they were allowed to let us "mere mortals" know of this stuff if its not been publicly released?

Yes, but we were hoping no one would notice, but apparently you did. Now we'll have to silence him. I hope you feel guilty.

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 The development of Longhorn seems to be much more community oriented than Microsoft's previous OS's, so we keep the community informed on little issues like this.

Thanks [smile]. I hang around the DX mailing list and DX newsgroups - the various [MSFT] and [MVP] people there keep dropping little bits of information every now and then...

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 Now we'll have to silence him. I hope you feel guilty.

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 Stay Casual

Gotta say, sounds overly ruthless for someone so casual [wink].

Jack

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 Original post by jollyjeffersIsn't it also the general design of COM components, that their interfaces are backwards compatible?

The general design of COM states that once an interface has been made public it cannot change. This means you couldn't change a method signature and re-release the component: you'd effectively be releasing a different interface. Nothing in COM design states that you must maintain support for old interfaces in your new components.

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 Original post by DrunkenHyenaNow we'll have to silence him.

Noooooooooooooooooo!!!! I've been CENSORED! [crying]

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Anybody want to tell me if this is a reasonable thought process:

I was thinking about the DX10-not-including-previous-versions detail, and it seems a pretty fine thing to do. If DX10 and above are Longhorn only, which I'm fairly certain they will be, any backwards compatibility they want to provide can be shipped with the OS, thus any user which has the minimum requirements for DX10, will, by definition have all the previous DirectX versions anyway, so no need to put any of them with DX10 :)

-Mezz

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I hate microsoft. I haven't even tried WGF 1 yet and they go calling it WGF 2. Can't they just use 0.x version numbers?? [icon with tongue blettering]

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 Original post by Pipo DeClownI hate microsoft. I haven't even tried WGF 1 yet and they go calling it WGF 2. Can't they just use 0.x version numbers?? [icon with tongue blettering]

[lol] This is because WGF 1.0 is the default graphics API that will be shipped with Longhorn. It's based on DX9, but some modifications are being made to condone the Avalon presentation model.

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Original post by Coder
Quote:
Original post by jollyjeffers
Quote:
 circlesoftDX10/DXNext/WGF 2.0 (or whatever you want to call it) is going to deviate from this. All of the binaries are getting so big (from ALL of the DX versions), that DX10 is going to start fresh by itself. This means that the D3D10.dll will not contain all previous versions of DirectX. The time is just prime to start a new generation of binaries, I guess.

Just out of curiousity, where abouts did you get that information?

He's an MVP, so he gets kinda exclusive access to hot news [grin]

Quote:
 It makes sense, but I came to that conclusion by different means - more that WGF2 is likely to be longhorn only (its been stated several times that there are no more DirectX's till then), and by that logic it's good for them to "break away" for the simple case of avoiding backwards compatability in longhorn..

IIRC, I read somewhere that Avalon and WinFS are going to be released as service packs for XP, or something similar. So I don't think WGF2 is going to be longhorn only.

This is public information available from the GDC site.
They have plenty of PDFs and PPTs

I learned it as soon as it was online, but going to the GDC conferences you will hear about it more quickly.

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 Original post by V-manI learned it as soon as it was online, but going to the GDC conferences you will hear about it more quickly.

Aye, GDC slides are great. Plus, they're free, so it doesn't get much better than that. I really wish I could attend GDC, but a couple of things are stopping me:

(a) Price of the passes - The lowest pass that I could live with is $825 (classic pass). I would *need* that Giga Pass though ($1250!?!?)

(b) Price of the plane ride out there - I'm in Pennsylvania. So yea, it's gonna cost mega-$$. (c) Price of hotels - 3-5 days in San Francisco during a busy time of the year. Another mega-$$\$.

(d) They won't even sell me a pass because I'm not 18 yet [crying]

So yea, I think it's a no. Bummer, huh?

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 Original post by CoderIIRC, I read somewhere that Avalon and WinFS are going to be released as service packs for XP, or something similar. So I don't think WGF2 is going to be longhorn only.

I think you're thinking of WinFX here, not WinFS (i.e. the filesystem). The filesystem will be released after Longhorn. WinFX (which is made up of Avalon and Indigo) will ship with Longhorn, but will also be released on Windows XP and Windows Server 2003.

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To be frank, all this stuff is scaring me.

It's just more things to learn. There is already many version of many different APIs, and then there's a whole array of languages, add to that .NET

It's becoming hard to keep up.

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 Original post by V-manIt's becoming hard to keep up.

I think the past couple years have been an awesome time to learn D3D. Since its API has changed minimally from 8.0 through 9.0, the same concepts and ideas have been around for a long time. Also, you aren't running short on time - the last estimate for a Longhorn release that I heard was 2006. Additionaly, DX10 is going to be released *after* Longhorn, so you have even more time to get up-to-speed with the current version.

The best thing you can probably do to get ready for the next version of D3D is to learn the ins-and-outs of shader programming. There is seriously no reason not to, and you are undoubtly going to need it.

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In all versions of DX, the previos version is still an atomic version. That is, an dx8 app is still using dx8, even if the system is using dx9.

However, dx9 still supports dx6 cards. That is, one can access the features of a dx6 card with dx9 interface. Going foward, this will almost certainly not be the case. Expect DX10 not to work with dx9 cards in any manner. You'll have to use dx9 for this.

Also, don't confuse the Longhorn version of the dx9 with dx10. They are seperate beasts.