# Next DirectX leaving pre-XP unsupported

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What do people think about the next version of DirectX not supporting Windows 2k (I assume that this means Windows 95 or 98 won't be supported either)? I read this in the December SDK readme I think. I still use a ~7-year old 333Mhz computer with a 'new' NVidia FX 5200 graphics card running Windows 2000, so I'm sure other people will be. I suppose I will have to do a survey to see what my target market use, but I am a bity concerned with this news.

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There is no next version of DirectX. MS is creating a new graphics API. DirectX will still be included for older games but new games being developed should use the new API.

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Might I inquire as to the name of this new API and what is its projected release date?

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I disagree. DirectX will always be available, but features of new videocards will not be accessible on old OSes. In my opinion, that's the saddest thing, because if you think about it, OpenGL will be updated through extensions on the older OSes.
But I don't actually think Microsoft will leave this problem open, they'll find a way.

And it's a fact, if you're not using XP, you're not using Windows (anymore). [rolleyes]

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The next SDK release won't official support Win2K. It might work, but they're not going to test it. *THIS ONLY MEANS THE SDK* The runtimes, and thus your games, will still support Win2K (and possibly older OSes).

This is Microsoft's way of forcing developers to upgrade. Just developers. Eventually you'll start using the new features and end users will have to upgrade.

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I was a little disappointed to hear that since I exclusively use Windows 2000. Has anyone compared developing for DirectX using Windows 2k and WIndows XP?

I am a little biased against XP since it sems like Microsoft is making their product more and more similar to the crappy and useless Apple interface. I would rather cut my wrists than touch a Mac again.

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Quote:
 Original post by NamethatnobodyelsetookThe next SDK release won't official support Win2K. It might work, but they're not going to test it. *THIS ONLY MEANS THE SDK* The runtimes, and thus your games, will still support Win2K (and possibly older OSes).This is Microsoft's way of forcing developers to upgrade. Just developers. Eventually you'll start using the new features and end users will have to upgrade.

Thanks for pointing that out!

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 Original post by NamethatnobodyelsetookThis is Microsoft's way of forcing developers to upgrade. Just developers. Eventually you'll start using the new features and end users will have to upgrade.

Actually it would have more to do with cost. While the overall market cannot be expected to be running the lastest software (or rather, not running a half decade old version of an operating system), forcing the company to spend money to ensure compatiblity through QA, with smaller performance segments it can (along the same lines Windows server line doesn't need to have the broad hardware support of the consumer line, allowing resources to be spent hardening it under a small number of possible configurations, rather then trying to make it work under all possible configurations)

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Quote:
 Original post by yzzidI was a little disappointed to hear that since I exclusively use Windows 2000. Has anyone compared developing for DirectX using Windows 2k and WIndows XP?

XP is more stable and performs better than 2k (providing the required resources are there). I haven't touched 2k in quite some time.

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 I am a little biased against XP since it sems like Microsoft is making their product more and more similar to the crappy and useless Apple interface.

You can turn off all the GUI extras that were introduced in XP so it looks identical to 2k.

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 I would rather cut my wrists than touch a Mac again.

Have you considered therapy?

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Quote:
 Original post by yzzidI was a little disappointed to hear that since I exclusively use Windows 2000. Has anyone compared developing for DirectX using Windows 2k and WIndows XP?I am a little biased against XP since it sems like Microsoft is making their product more and more similar to the crappy and useless Apple interface. I would rather cut my wrists than touch a Mac again.

I have developed on both, and I never really noticed any difference at all, from a developer's standpoint. Also, how does a more attractive UI make it more similar to Apples? I for one am tired at looking at the completely square, grey, and ugly UI, especially when I see other OS's that are very attractive (and not just Apple - many Linux distros are very sleek and easy on the eyes, as well).

If you don't like the default styles that come with XP, install your own. There are literally hundreds of thousands out there on the web. It's just a matter of personal preference.

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 There is no next version of DirectX. MS is creating a new graphics API. DirectX will still be included for older games but new games being developed should use the new API.

Where did you hear this from? The next version of DirectX (called DX10/DirectXNext/Whatever-is-catchy-this-week) will ship after Longhorn is released. This is because Avalon is being developed on an enhanced DX9 (they need something stable to build it on - building betas on other betas doesn't work [lol])

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 Original post by circlesoftWhere did you hear this from? The next version of DirectX (called DX10/DirectXNext/Whatever-is-catchy-this-week) will ship after Longhorn is released. This is because Avalon is being developed on an enhanced DX9 (they need something stable to build it on - building betas on other betas doesn't work [lol])

It's now called the WGF (Windows Graphics Foundation)... aka, DirectX 10!

Really, as if MS is going to completely ditch all the work they've done on DX and start from scratch. It's just being rebranded and most likely reorganized and refactored to remove all the crud they've probably been wanting to remove but couldn't for compatibility reasons, and most likely adding better 2D support since it'll also replace GDI as the workhorse. But I imagine most of the underlaying code will be the same.

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Hmm i was under the impression that window grafick foundation was win32 api as but enhanced and that XNA was thair new crossplatform Gameprogramming api.

But if xna aint new DX what is XNA then?

just wondering.

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Quote:
 Original post by nuvemIt's now called the WGF (Windows Graphics Foundation)... aka, DirectX 10!

No, WGF is the new graphics-component of DirectX. Many people refer to DirectX, when they really mean D3D. DX is a collection of multimedia components, one of them being Direct3D (and in the future, WGF).

Also, WGF 1.0 is the super-set of DX9 that will ship with Longhorn. It is being used for the Avalon presentation model, and will have inhanced 3D-rendering capability for the new GUI. WGF 2.0 is the graphics component that will ship with DX10.

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Quote:
 Original post by nuvemIt's now called the WGF (Windows Graphics Foundation)... aka, DirectX 10!Really, as if MS is going to completely ditch all the work they've done on DX and start from scratch. It's just being rebranded and most likely reorganized and refactored to remove all the crud they've probably been wanting to remove but couldn't for compatibility reasons, and most likely adding better 2D support since it'll also replace GDI as the workhorse. But I imagine most of the underlaying code will be the same.

There are big changes in the driver model which will affect a lot of the code. I'm sure they haven't thrown everything out and started from scratch but it is more of a major overhaul than just a rebranding. It's probably the biggest change at the driver / OS level in Direct3D's history.

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Here, educate yourselves:

Confirmation (There are more if you just google)
Some tech info

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D'ya think that they meant only WGF will be supported on XP, not the new SDK updates, which come out every 2 months. I assume they will continue to come out until 2006?

Luck!
Guimo

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 Original post by DrGUID'ya think that they meant only WGF will be supported on XP, not the new SDK updates, which come out every 2 months. I assume they will continue to come out until 2006?Would it be a massive overhaul to convert D3D code to use WGF? Do you think M\$ will be nice enough to give us a converter or something?Side note: how do you get shader debugging to install - yes I have got the Dec SDK installed but there was no option. Please don't tell me I need VS professional instead of standard!

WGF will most likely only be supported from XP and up, it is just an educated guess.

I believe DX will be supported until the release of WGF, after which support will be dropped just like previous versions of DX and Windows Game SDK before that. Only serious bugs or security issues may be dealt with I think.

I don't think MS will release a converter so you will probably have to deal with the new API yourself. If you have planned for a API independent path from the beginning it will be easier to deal with. If not, well ...
I believe it will not be too hard to convert to the new API.

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Cool discussion, thanks guys/(girls?)

Esp MichaelT: as long as the device is similar and has reset, lost and destroy I don't think I'll have too much trouble converting ;-} Also, I have looked at the docs, but that option just isn't on VC# 2003 Standard :-[

I don't care about the user interface too much as long as it's easy to use. I find massive icons and simplified control panel annoying - am I a geek?! (yeah I know you can turn them off, but I still deride them!)

I'm only 15.5 and doing my GCSEs - so I'm not rich and successful like you ppl! (well - a few A*s, As and top-of-classes in my mock results so far)Hopefully my parents with buy me a new computer soon!

Thanks for the interesting discussion - I've learnt some new stuff.

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