Controversial game ideal?

Dak Lozar · 2000-11-10T20:06:25

I''m in a strange state... I haven''t been working on game related stuff for about a week... side project is consuming too much time. So, I suppose that is why this ideal came to me... How about a game in which the player moves into a neighborhood where two rival gangs are fighting over "turf" (I have zero knowledge of any of this activity - except what I have seen from movies, tv and news ( of course the news is the same as tv)). The player must choose which gang to join. After that it would be played out like any RPG or a space sim in which the storyline is controlled and the choices the player makes affect the storyline. Of course, a MP version would allow greater freedom everyone that enters the world would have to choose which gang (I''m sure there would be many...), if any! This could be fun... but... I can see where it would be controversial... the media and some other groups would love to sink their teeth into something like this.... but, if you did it right... and tried to show that gangs aren''t all that great of a way of life... maybe you could get away with the concept. I know that in the past I have made some fairly bold statements about violence in games and about games (games not meant to be educational) not being tools of learning. Call it old age or whatever you like... but maybe games can be educational or games can influence behavior in a positive direction. What are your thoughts? Dave "Dak Lozar"Loeser

Dak Lozar

122

Author

November 06, 2000 06:59 PM

Paul,
Welcome back...

Tis good to hear from you.

As for game play... jeez... I really haven''t thought much more about the ideal. In fact, I think I was more struck with the issue of contreversy as opposed to game play.

But, if I were to design something like this... ... ok, it''s coming to me hold on

OK, how about a Close Combat type game? Squad level only here your using gangs? Ummm nah that would suck.... how about... Doh never mind

I don''t think the ideal would work all that well as an after thought. But everyone is welcome to prove me wrong!

Keep on designing!

Dave "Dak Lozar"Loeser

Dave Dak Lozar Loeser
"Software Engineering is a race between the programmers, trying to make bigger and better fool-proof software, and the universe trying to make bigger fools. So far the Universe in winning."--anonymous

Mr Cup

122

November 09, 2000 04:20 AM

Hey Wavinator, I''d play that. How long can you play the stupidly hard, ''right'' way before giving in. He he he, a game that breaks your will. I like it. Oh and I was joking before, the babies on spikes comes from a stand up comic guy, damn I cant remember his name! His one is actually funny, no crack, or caffeine.

As Mr Cup always says,
''''I pretend to work. They pretend to pay me.''''

As Mr Cup always says,''I pretend to work. They pretend to pay me.''

Anonymous

November 09, 2000 04:40 AM

>> but there''s a huge difference controversy and obscenity. >>

You usually call the expression of people that you do not agree with obscene while you might say that any non-popular opinions that you yourself support are controversial. There is no absolute hard line between the obscenity and controverse.

One game that I would like to see would be about creating moral justifications for various actions, running a propaganda war instead of just controlling tanks and soldiers. I think traditional RTS games could easily be made politicly controversial by using techniques such as having suicide-bomber soldiers shout ''Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can.. Blam!'' when they charge their enemies. Some would probably call that obscene though.

Henry

Dak Lozar

122

Author

November 09, 2000 07:46 AM

quote:Original post by Anonymous Poster
[snip]
I think traditional RTS games could easily be made politicly controversial by using techniques such as having suicide-bomber soldiers shout ''Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can.. Blam!'' when they charge their enemies. Some would probably call that obscene though.
Henry

I just call it disrespectful.

Dave "Dak Lozar"Loeser

Dave Dak Lozar Loeser
"Software Engineering is a race between the programmers, trying to make bigger and better fool-proof software, and the universe trying to make bigger fools. So far the Universe in winning."--anonymous

Anonymous

November 09, 2000 03:24 PM

Disrespectful, obscene... potato, potato (the second potato should be pronounced as potaato)

I agree with Wavinator though, instead of doing as Dak Lozar suggests "but, if you did it right... and tried to show that gangs aren''t all that great of a way of life... maybe you could get away with the concept" I think a game that examined the reasons behind the gangbanger lifestyle would be of much greater value. A game with an actual message would also deserve the protection of the 1st amendment more than any ordinary shoot-em-upper set in the ganglands.

There are some controversial games out there that deal with real issues. One game that comes to mind is the one where you play a reindeer running around in the woods shooting human hunters. A lot of hunters voiced the opinion that they thought that game was ''disrespectful'' to say the least. Even though I do not think the creators of the game had any political motivations, the game did give a new perspective on the act of killing living beings for pleasure. Maybe someday we will see games that examine the financial motives behind modern military action and business games that explore exploitation of third world countries. That''s when we can talk about real controversy in games.

Henry

jt_845s

122

November 09, 2000 03:32 PM

rent the movie ''last man standing'' with bruce willis. It''s set back in the 30''s or 40''s, but the storyline could give you some ideas.

#define ignite_software 1

[source]#define ignite_software 1[/source]

Dak Lozar

122

Author

November 10, 2000 08:03 AM

quote:Original post by Anonymous Poster

Disrespectful, obscene... potato, potato (the second potato should be pronounced as potaato)

I agree with Wavinator though, instead of doing as Dak Lozar suggests "but, if you did it right... and tried to show that gangs aren''t all that great of a way of life... maybe you could get away with the concept" I think a game that examined the reasons behind the gangbanger lifestyle would be of much greater value. A game with an actual message would also deserve the protection of the 1st amendment more than any ordinary shoot-em-upper set in the ganglands.

[snip...]

Henry

I suppose I should elaborate... I said it was disrespectful because he used the words of a man that was fair to all people. J.F.K. is a well thought of American President. Unlike some that came before him and most that have followed him, he was undoubtedly the world''s best-loved world leader.

During my travels to Europe and the Middle East, I’ve found that most people respect J.F.K. tremendously. And using his words, in the manner that the poster suggested is in my opinion, disrespectful.

Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser

Dave Dak Lozar Loeser
"Software Engineering is a race between the programmers, trying to make bigger and better fool-proof software, and the universe trying to make bigger fools. So far the Universe in winning."--anonymous

MadKeithV

992

November 10, 2000 09:29 AM

quote:Original post by Dak Lozar
[snip]
he was undoubtedly the world''s best-loved world leader.

grr.. careful with the generalizations here. This might degenerate. I''d change it to
"He was undoubtedly one of the world''s best-loved leaders".
Not a big change but just big enough.

quote:Original post by Dak Lozar
During my travels to Europe and the Middle East, I’ve found that most people respect J.F.K. tremendously. And using his words, in the manner that the poster suggested is in my opinion, disrespectful.

Actually I think it would be a markedly sharp observation at how even the best intentions and statements can be perverted by someone with a strong enough belief in one cause or another. What J.F.K. meant, and how people interpret it, is not the same.

It''s actually an honour that this was mentioned.

People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~

It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.

Dak Lozar

122

Author

November 10, 2000 01:54 PM

quote:Original post by MadKeithV
grr.. careful with the generalizations here. This might degenerate. I''d change it to
"He was undoubtedly one of the world''s best-loved leaders".
Not a big change but just big enough.
[snip]

I''m not going to nit-pick semantics with you but, I am getting a bit P.O.ed at the division that is constantly on this board. Americans -vs.- Europeans, Europeans -vs.- Americans, etc... I have been a strong advocate of dropping all of this garbage in the past and I will in the future.
If you think that I was trying to be pro-American in this instance, you were wrong and I offer my apologies.

quote:
Actually I think it would be a markedly sharp observation at how even the best intentions and statements can be perverted by someone with a strong enough belief in one cause or another. What J.F.K. meant, and how people interpret it, is not the same.

It''s actually an honour that this was mentioned.

What do you mean? What do you think he meant when he (J.F.K.) said this? What do you think he meant when he (the AP) said this?

Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser

Dave Dak Lozar Loeser
"Software Engineering is a race between the programmers, trying to make bigger and better fool-proof software, and the universe trying to make bigger fools. So far the Universe in winning."--anonymous

Anonymous

November 10, 2000 08:06 PM

My point was that having his words being shouted by suicide bombers would be to give a critical perspective on American nationalism, something that would certainly be controversial. I know many feel that such a view would not be entirely unjustified either since we have many examples of movies (Air Force One and The Rules of Engagement, haven''t seen the last one but read the reviews) and other forms of media that turns themselves silly trying to push the opposite view. A statement like that would obviously be disrespectful to those who hold a certain opinion but so would Air Force One be to anyone of the opposite opinion.

Anyway, I''m not here to discuss how justified American nationalism really is so feel free NOT to go on about it. It was just an example of what I would call ''real controversy''.

Henry

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