# Fragment program support Nvidia cards

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I looked at delphi3d and it looks like fragment_program is only supported on Geforce FX and newer cards? They have some buzz/emulated listing for Geforce 3/4 not sure what that is? So am I correct in saying that Geforce FX and newer is all FP can run on from Nvidia. ATI is 9500 and newer.

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Im pretty sure some gf4 can run fragment programs, but theres one good way to check :-) http://d3dcaps.chris.dragan.name/

hope that helps
-Dan

EDIT: i checked it out for my own knowledge, heres what it gave me

Vendor	Device	                GL_ARB_fragment_program	GL_ARB_vertex_programATi	Radeon  9000	        -	YESATi	Radeon  9100 IGP	-	YESATi	Radeon  9200	        -	YESATi	Radeon  9500	        YES	YESATi	Radeon  9600	        YES	YESATi	Radeon  9600	        YES	YESNVidia	GeForce 6600	        YES	YESNVidia	GeForce 6800	        YES	YESNVidia	GeForce FX 5200	        YES	YESNVidia	GeForce FX 5700 Ultra	YES	YESNVidia	GeForce FX 5700LE	YES	YESNVidia	GeForce2 GTS	        -	YESNVidia	GeForce2 GTS	        -	YESNVidia	GeForce2 MX	        -	-NVidia	GeForce2 MX 400	        -	YESNVidia	GeForce4 MX 440	        -	YESNVidia	GeForce4 Ti 4200	-	YES

DOUBLE EDIT: needed some tabbing from me too :-p

i added the tags to preserve the tabs

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yep, you're correct there.
Pre-DX9 class hardware the only combining things are hardware specific

In the D3D world, yes you had basic fragment shaders via a unified interface, but not via OpenGL.

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Quote:
 Original post by _the_phantom_yep, you're correct there.Pre-DX9 class hardware the only combining things are hardware specificIn the D3D world, yes you had basic fragment shaders via a unified interface, but not via OpenGL.

So I am right in saying that unless my users have a Geforce FX or newer card from Nvidia and a 9500 or newer card from ATI they will be out of luck due to I am using FP's... Just trying to get an idea on who can run my stuff.

Thanks Phantom. BTW you never got back to me on the shadow stuff? What good is the fragment_program_shadow good for or do? Does it simplify making shadows? add in some missing functions in the FP that are in GLSL for making shadows easier? Thanks

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Quote:
 Original post by Ademan555Im pretty sure some gf4 can run fragment programs, but theres one good way to check :-) http://d3dcaps.chris.dragan.name/hope that helps-DanEDIT: i checked it out for my own knowledge, heres what it gave me*** Source Snippet Removed ***DOUBLE EDIT: needed some tabbing from me too :-pi added the tags to preserve the tabs

Thanks I looked on that site and it confirmed my statement that Ati 9500 and newer and Nvidia Geforce Fx and newer have FP support. Thanks

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Quote:
 Original post by MARS_999Thanks Phantom. BTW you never got back to me on the shadow stuff? What good is the fragment_program_shadow good for or do? Does it simplify making shadows? add in some missing functions in the FP that are in GLSL for making shadows easier? Thanks

Didnt I? oh, sorry, I have a bad memory at times and mix in with that that i'm pretty easy to distract it doesnt help...

The extension in question allows the shader to do a depth compare against a shadow map/depth map and get a sane result. Thats pretty much it.

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Quote:
Original post by MARS_999
Quote:
 Original post by _the_phantom_yep, you're correct there.Pre-DX9 class hardware the only combining things are hardware specificIn the D3D world, yes you had basic fragment shaders via a unified interface, but not via OpenGL.

So I am right in saying that unless my users have a Geforce FX or newer card from Nvidia and a 9500 or newer card from ATI they will be out of luck due to I am using FP's... Just trying to get an idea on who can run my stuff.

Thanks Phantom. BTW you never got back to me on the shadow stuff? What good is the fragment_program_shadow good for or do? Does it simplify making shadows? add in some missing functions in the FP that are in GLSL for making shadows easier? Thanks

NO NO NO...

You are out of luck because you will have revert to using combiners and ATI fragment extensions :-) Unless you suck and won't put in the work for the peons without higher class hardware.

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Quote:
Original post by qesbit
Quote:
Original post by MARS_999
Quote:
 Original post by _the_phantom_yep, you're correct there.Pre-DX9 class hardware the only combining things are hardware specificIn the D3D world, yes you had basic fragment shaders via a unified interface, but not via OpenGL.

So I am right in saying that unless my users have a Geforce FX or newer card from Nvidia and a 9500 or newer card from ATI they will be out of luck due to I am using FP's... Just trying to get an idea on who can run my stuff.

Thanks Phantom. BTW you never got back to me on the shadow stuff? What good is the fragment_program_shadow good for or do? Does it simplify making shadows? add in some missing functions in the FP that are in GLSL for making shadows easier? Thanks

NO NO NO...

You are out of luck because you will have revert to using combiners and ATI fragment extensions :-) Unless you suck and won't put in the work for the peons without higher class hardware.

LOL I really am shooting for higher end hardware. My terrain is looking sweet. And once I finish off the rest of the bit and pices I need to add in not sure if it will be possible to use FFP to get the desired results of FP/VP/GLSL features or performance that I am seeing now. I guess I wouldn't know unless I recoded the whole thing in FFP which would be a lot of work if it possible. Besides 9500 and Geforce Fx5200 cards are cheap...

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If your a big game dev, the yeah I can see the point in making your game work on as many machines as possible, but for your own stuff I say pick a target and go with it and it that means telling anything pre-DX9 to sod off then so be it (which is the line I like to take in my personal stuff)

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Quote:
 Original post by _the_phantom_If your a big game dev, the yeah I can see the point in making your game work on as many machines as possible, but for your own stuff I say pick a target and go with it and it that means telling anything pre-DX9 to sod off then so be it (which is the line I like to take in my personal stuff)

Well it's kind of pointless to demo your l337 skills with new technology by making stuff that has already been done...

But if you are commercial you will have to support older cards most publishers will require you to do this..

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Quote:
 Original post by qesbitWell it's kind of pointless to demo your l337 skills with new technology by making stuff that has already been done...

Not really, for example I've implimented shadow maps, reflections and Doom3 lighting recently in various projects. All this has ofcourse been done and my stuff is based on other peoples idea and code, however I still get a sense of 'hell yeah!' when I see something I've put together working. I dont care that various ppl have got there first, the fact is that I've now got there and I can keep moving.
From my own point of view; I've got a game in mind in the long term, if I get the job I'm after (see below) then chances are it wont see the light of day pre-2008, at which point pre-DX9 class hardware WILL be dead and gone and things will have moved on some, so why spend my time now making things work for cards which wont be any use?

Quote:
 But if you are commercial you will have to support older cards most publishers will require you to do this..

Indeed, and for some (hopefully) commercial work I'm working with the Source engine so I personally dont have to worry about it and even if I did if someone is paying me top dollar to impliment this stuff then I do as they say, regardless of my own views on the matter.

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Quote:
Original post by qesbit
Quote:
 Original post by _the_phantom_If your a big game dev, the yeah I can see the point in making your game work on as many machines as possible, but for your own stuff I say pick a target and go with it and it that means telling anything pre-DX9 to sod off then so be it (which is the line I like to take in my personal stuff)

Well it's kind of pointless to demo your l337 skills with new technology by making stuff that has already been done...

But if you are commercial you will have to support older cards most publishers will require you to do this..

You forget that JC and Tim Sweeny aren't making up this stuff either. A lot of algorithms people use today came out 20-30 years ago. Shadowmaps are nothing new... 20 years old. Perlin noise 20 years old... So what is your point that all games made today irregardless of who's making them are just copies and ripoffs of stuff that people have done for over 20 years?

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Quote:
Original post by _the_phantom_
Quote:
 Original post by qesbitWell it's kind of pointless to demo your l337 skills with new technology by making stuff that has already been done...

Not really, for example I've implimented shadow maps, reflections and Doom3 lighting recently in various projects. All this has ofcourse been done and my stuff is based on other peoples idea and code, however I still get a sense of 'hell yeah!' when I see something I've put together working. I dont care that various ppl have got there first, the fact is that I've now got there and I can keep moving.
From my own point of view; I've got a game in mind in the long term, if I get the job I'm after (see below) then chances are it wont see the light of day pre-2008, at which point pre-DX9 class hardware WILL be dead and gone and things will have moved on some, so why spend my time now making things work for cards which wont be any use?

Quote:
 But if you are commercial you will have to support older cards most publishers will require you to do this..

Indeed, and for some (hopefully) commercial work I'm working with the Source engine so I personally dont have to worry about it and even if I did if someone is paying me top dollar to impliment this stuff then I do as they say, regardless of my own views on the matter.

When you get a job coding games, just remember me!! LOL

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