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"Visual C++ 6.0" or "Visual C++ .NET" ???

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Which version is best for simplicity and quick proramming? I am about to start learning C++ (I don't know a single thing yet...), and I would like to know which one's best for a beginner.... Thanks! :)

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.NET; it's a more recent version of the same product. VC++ 6.0 is old, outdated, defective, and obsolete. Don't use it.

Of course, there are also free IDE's such as Dev-C++, Parinya MinGW Developer Studio, and Code::Blocks, based on the GNU compiler suite.

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Visual C++ .NET obviously is more feature-rich, but if you're just beginning, I see no problems at all using Visual C++ 6.0. It is in no way "defective" or "obselete" as the previous poster said. It's just not as good.

So, to answer your original question: .NET is better for the beginner, but using 6.0 isn't necessarily bad.

But, in case you didn't know, Visual C++ .NET 2005 can be downloaded for free here:

http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/visualc/

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Quote:
Original post by spunkybuttockszc
Visual C++ .NET obviously is more feature-rich, but if you're just beginning, I see no problems at all using Visual C++ 6.0. It is in no way "defective" or "obselete" as the previous poster said. It's just not as good.

It really is defective and obsolete. VC++ 6.0 is one of the least compliant compilers still used. There are lots of things that simply won't compile, or will not compile properly with VC++ 6.0, such as almost anything even remotely complex with templates. It's silly to get nowadays considering there have already been two new versions released since then (7.0 and 7.1 aka the .NET and .NET 2003 VC++ compilers). In terms of compliance and optimizations, VC++ 7.1 is a great choice. So, go for VC++ .NET 2003 if at all possible, or go for .NET 2005.

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Quote:
Original post by Polymorphic OOP
Quote:
Original post by spunkybuttockszc
Visual C++ .NET obviously is more feature-rich, but if you're just beginning, I see no problems at all using Visual C++ 6.0. It is in no way "defective" or "obselete" as the previous poster said. It's just not as good.

It really is defective and obsolete. VC++ 6.0 is one of the least compliant compilers still used. There are lots of things that simply won't compile, or will not compile properly with VC++ 6.0, such as almost anything even remotely complex with templates. It's silly to get nowadays considering there have already been two new versions released since then (7.0 and 7.1 aka the .NET and .NET 2003 VC++ compilers). In terms of compliance and optimizations, VC++ 7.1 is a great choice. So, go for VC++ .NET 2003 if at all possible, or go for .NET 2005.


I guess that's possible, considering when I did use VC++ 6.0 I only coded in C, and never used C++. But I'm still not sure I would consider it totally obselete. Surely he could get some use out of it.

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Quote:
Original post by BlackWind
do i need the service pack 2 to install VC 2005?


It does not explicity say so. But looking at the fact it needs .NET, you will need IE 6. It later says that
Quote:
Installation of Windows XP Service Pack 2 on your computer can cause the firewall for your network connection to automatically restrict most programs, including the LAN performance booster service for Visual SourceSafe, from accessing the network.
when talking about Visual Source Safe, so I think it is not required, but perhaps someone else can verify this as well.

- Drew

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For a beginner VS6 is easier to grasp as it doesn't have all
that .NET overhead, but you'll have an outdated C++ standard.
But you know what? If you can compile a program in VS6, you
can compile one in .NET, as it's pretty much the same thing
with the exception that in .NET things are a little more
cluttered. If you can only get one, get .NET or GCC 3.4.3.
Learn C++ the right way.

But if you can get both, get both. You'll never know when
you'll need them. For example, if you're going to build a
game engine, there's nothing like examining professional
code, and alot of game SDKs only work with VS6. SDKs like
Croteam's Serious Sam, Raven Software's Star Trek Elite
Force, Monolith's No One Lives Forever... all these SDKs
have a good portion of thier math and AI library free to
see how they work and how their class hierarchies were
designed (Serious Sam's in particular). And these games
will only work with VS6.

Also, with graphics plugin programming, in my case LightWave,
there is a preference for VS6. My plugins crashed and burned
when I ported them to .NET, so I went back to VS6.

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If you are going to program a .NET application, do NOT use VC++. VC++ is supported as a .NET language only because so much code now exists in C++ and VC++.NET offers an easy way to make existing code interoperate with .NET. However, the syntax that the .NET extensions add is unwieldly, and you should really not use it unless you have a good reason to. Microsoft doesn't even advise using VC++.NET for new development, only to port existing applications to .NET.

So, if you want to use .NET, learn C# or maybe Visual Basic.NET. If you want to learn C++, then just don't use the .NET API's or any of the managed code features. You may still want to use VC++ 2005 since it is more up to date. You can just disable the managed code extensions in the project's properties.

Thats my advice, anyway.

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Quote:
Original post by Dead Eye
For a beginner VS6 is easier to grasp as it doesn't have all
that .NET overhead, but you'll have an outdated C++ standard.

I'm not sure what you mean by overhead. I guess you're talking about UI overhead, because .NET has nothing to do with your program code if you're coding in straight C++, unless you choose to use it.

Quote:
But if you can get both, get both. You'll never know when
you'll need them. For example, if you're going to build a
game engine, there's nothing like examining professional
code, and alot of game SDKs only work with VS6. SDKs like

I've never had any troubles with loading VS6 projects in VS.NET..

cheers
sam.

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Quote:
Original post by izzo
I'm not sure what you mean by overhead. I guess you're talking about UI overhead, because .NET has nothing to do with your program code if you're coding in straight C++, unless you choose to use it.


you are correct, i meant ui overhead. but if you ignore all the other
Visual C++ projects and just use Visual C++ Projects->Win32->Win 32
Project, it's virtually the same as VS6.

Quote:
Original post by izzo
I've never had any troubles with loading VS6 projects in VS.NET..


try compiling the Serious Sam source code with VS.NET and you
will get some template related errors and some casting errors
from their some of their inline code. also, some of these game
SDKs use MFC 4.2 as a shared DLL, and VS .NET comes with MFC 7.1.
i was just ranting that when you need VS6, it comes in pretty
handy :). it's far from being useless.

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Rather than use an expensive C/C++ IDE, "VC++", you can also use a free C/C++ IDE, "DevC++"

I might use DarkBASIC or BASIC than C/C++ to make games, it's easier to use than C/C++, but C/C++ is the most Advanced Programming Language nowday. But, I recommend for all newbie to use DarkBASIC or maybe BASIC(VisualBasic) for the first time programming.

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i just installed .NET on my machine (.NET 2002) and i am trying to set up an openGL app through the console so i can use GLUT and some other non-propeitary stuff. when i look at the VB project it has an option for the console, that same with C#. but with C++ i dont see a console option all, only a win32 project. how do you set up an openGL console app in .NET?

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Use win32 project. The wizard will then let you choose between a DLL, a static library, a windows and a console app.
[edit]
Alternatively you can just have a look at the manual...
Anyone else repapered their workspace with all the gimmicks that usually come with the VC++ boxed versions? [smile]
[/edit]

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Use Visual Studio 2003 .NET for everything .. period. It has so many less bugs than Visual Studio .NET (2002) and Visual Studio (Visual C++) 6, that I can't even express how much less frustration I get while using it ... (although it still has bugs and frustration, just a lot less).

Now whether you want to use strait C++, C++ with .NET or C# wiht .NET ... that's a whole different decision, and you can really choose whatever you feel comfortable with.

Personally I use C# for most .NET windows app stuff I do, and strait C++ for most game library type stuff I do - but that's just me and largely based on my development history (and love for C++ templates).

Even though I don't use C++ with .NET very often, I totally disagree that said C++ is not meant to be used with .NET. In fact, in the 2005 version of .NET C++ will catch up to C#/VB.NET in the realm of clean code, and both of those languages will change enough that each will have a distinct flavor for you to choose, while all 3 are quite complete when it comes to the 95% of features people actually use (personally I hate VB, but it really is a complete langauge with its own tradeoffs now).

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Quote:
Original post by Xai
Even though I don't use C++ with .NET very often, I totally disagree that said C++ is not meant to be used with .NET.


I never meant to say that .NET isn't meant to be used with C++. I only meant that its not recommended unless you have a good reason. If you want to write a .NET application, but have C++ code you want to reuse, thats a good reason. Wanting to use C++ templates in a .NET application is another good reason because .NET doesn't support generics yet. My point, however, is that if you are a new developer that doesn't know C++ and you want to write .NET applications, there probably isn't much reason to use C++ over C#, which is much cleaner. Even Microsoft admits this, and advises that new applications that don't use existing C++ code be developed in C# or VB. Microsoft is trying to fix this in the next version, and I hope that they succeed. But, until a release-quality version of VS2005 is available, I would not use C++ to write code for .NET unless I had a specific reason to do so.

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If you can afford it, go with Visual Studio.

From personal experience, I strongly recommend against Dev-C++ as an IDE. Parinya MinGW Developer Studio is much more solid.

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Quote:
Original post by Nilhanth
Which version is best for simplicity and quick proramming?


Neither. For simplicity and quick programming, you'll want Python, not C++. That said, if you're dead set o learning C++, the only reason you might ever want to use Visual Studio 6 is if you're broke and someone gives it to you. And even then, there would be better alternatives.

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Quote:
Original post by Fruny
For simplicity and quick programming, you'll want Python, not C++.

Damn it, how could I forget to mention this? I must have forgotten my Python fanboy hat.

That said, seconded.

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