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On the popular topic of outsourcing.

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Quote:
Based on the original, now derailed and closed, thread at: http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=278935
I am interested in the details of creating/hiring an offshore development site. What a whopper topic on GameDev. In all my time spent here I've only seen two to three posters who weren't American. But I don't believe that I am stealing jobs from the states overseas. To put it frankly, I would love be able to do so much more with what I have. A dream of mine would be to invest $[comically low sum] into any of a few different game ideas of mine - I wouldn't have the luxery of a few million to throw around which even a mediocre company could do. $70,000 junior programmer annual salary versus $10-25,000? No contest for me. Sure, paying more usually corollates to higher quality, but beggers can't be choosers. Trying to realize this solely within America would be nigh impossible; it simply wouldn't happen, and in the end, nobody would get paid (maybe one guy, for a few years). If anybody is willing to provide more information on this process, or where it would be found, I would greatly appreciate it. Please do not derail this thread as the last one with your opinion on the pros or cons of globalization, various statistical data, or anecodatal evidence supporting your opinion.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
You cant outsource game development.

There are no companies in India that would do this for you.

Indian outsourcing companies are specialized in business apps (JAVA,DATABASE,PHP, etc etc), they don't know jack about 3d graphics, math, game development.

Sorry.

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Try Eastern Europe. They have very talented coders over there with high qualifications who are willing to work and love to stay at their home.
Seriously, give Russia, Poland, Romania, ... a try!
And with regards to the AP: there's nothing that cannot be outsourced if you do it with the right people.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Ok, lets say I am a polish programmer looking to pick up American jobs that are outsourced...

Do I...

(A) study databases and java, and other popular current technologies that American companies want on the cheap

(B) study 3d math, 3d graphics, read SIGGRAPH papers in my spare time, read up on all of the latest load balancing algorithms, even though nobody currently outsources these things

The answer is obviously A.

Game development is a very specialized field inside of computer science, you are not going to find a group of indian,polish, russian or what have you programmers that know how to do it. Even if you do, they will end up costing about as much as American ones.

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AP: Are you trying to imply that there are no game developers in Eastern Europe?
This is just plain ignorant.
You've already been proven WRONG, BTW... Not to mention these guys, but what do I know - I'm just a stupid European who actually knows some guys in Poland and Russia[headshake]...



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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Even if you do, they will end up costing about as much as American ones.

Yeah - I see you know what you're talking about.

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Quote:
Original post by Coda A27
In all my time spent here I've only seen two to three posters who weren't American. But I don't believe that I am stealing jobs from the states overseas.


You really have spent too little time here [smile]

If you're serious, I currently work for its.co.cr, an outsourcing company in Costa Rica, we work with such companies as Intel and Chiquita brands.

What exactly do you have in mind?

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Kwizatz: According to the AP, there are no game developers in Costa Rica! [smile]

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The AP is not only wrong about Eastern Europe but about India too. There are companies in India doing both outsourced coding and art for game development.

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
You cant outsource game development.

There are no companies in India that would do this for you.

Indian outsourcing companies are specialized in business apps (JAVA,DATABASE,PHP, etc etc), they don't know jack about 3d graphics, math, game development.

Sorry.


Sample 1
Sample 2

Noob

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Guest Anonymous Poster
thats not what i meant at all.

Of course there are talented game programmers in eastern europe.

However, the question was about companies that accept outsourced projects, in the range of 25,000$

If you know one of these, please post a link.

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
thats not what i meant at all.

Of course there are talented game programmers in eastern europe.

However, the question was about companies that accept outsourced projects, in the range of 25,000$

If you know one of these, please post a link.


Oh heavens no, you have misunderstood me. I was just comparing the base salary pay of a worker, not total project costs. A single programmer whether American or not is still only a programmer and not an artist or audio engineer. A realistic budget would be in the range of six-digits; a significant amount, but again paltry compared to industry budgets.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
oh ok, sorry for the misunderstanding.

FYI, Depending on what you want, you can probably get a group to do a game for you for low 6 figures in America. Of course it won't be AAA quality, but it will be pretty darn good.

200,000$ could go a long way.

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Quote:
Original post by Coda A27 $70,000 junior programmer annual salary versus $10-25,000? No contest for me.
That doesn't seem right. About £15K is a junior programmer in the UK. That translates to about $22,500. Even assuming higher wages in the US (true?) $25K seems reasonable. No idea what the wage is in Eastern Bloc nations though...

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In my country (Croatia) there are few developing firms that do bussiness software primary and do games occassionaly. We had a few local hits, two adventure games and one puzzle, and two worldwide hits (ever played Serious Sam 1 or 2)? My point is, there ARE quite a few poeple that develop games, but for 100% of us, that's just a hobby: you cannot survive in these parts of the earth if you do games, because you cannot properly marketize it and it will not sale; that's the reason you cannot find any company. Everyone of us earn salary in some kind of other bussines, often not connected to the IT at all, put aside programming.

If you search for the individuals, and you're willing to organize a team, or search among smallest companies (4-5 people), you could have luck.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if anyone of hobbysts would accept the offer - the money IS NOT the issuse, but the spare time. I, for example, do games (read: game) in my spare time, and I'm quite satisfied by sharing my spare time by my will (because I don't have much spare time), and no money will cover that. When its done (the game), it will go to freeware or public domain. The money I would potentially earn by programming for outsourcing firm is really not enough: I can do better for a lower-mental-demand job here.

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Hi

I just had a look at some of these companies at gamasutra

Just wondering how much would I have to pay for a high quality playermodel
with arond 3000-5000 triangles

skinned and boned with characterstudio

and maybe bumpmapped as well


just asking because outsourcing sounds pretty interesting to me, since I don t have the money and the talent to do models on my own

Any idea ?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
d000g: $25,000 for an entry level programmer?

In America, $25,000 is about what you make working at the grocery store or McDonalds, maybe slightly higher.

Average starting salary for a computer science graduate last year was $47,000

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I would disagree with you on unavailability of Game Dev companies in India. We, for one, are specialists in outsourcing and have 4-5 outsourced projects running parallely at any given time. We have a dedicated service wing at Raptor Entertainment that handles outsourced projects alone. Also, our average annual salaries are WAY lower than in other nations. Talk about a senior programmer getting paid anywhere between $10000-$15000 per annum. This includes his insurance, perks etc. India is definitely worth a stopover incase of any outsourced work you are looking at.

Thanks.
Vidyuth Srinivasan

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
d000g: $25,000 for an entry level programmer?

In America, $25,000 is about what you make working at the grocery store or McDonalds, maybe slightly higher.

Average starting salary for a computer science graduate last year was $47,000


YAY!!!

Is this true???

Man i'm definately moving overseas when I graduate then!!

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
You cant outsource game development.

There are no companies in India that would do this for you.

Indian outsourcing companies are specialized in business apps (JAVA,DATABASE,PHP, etc etc), they don't know jack about 3d graphics, math, game development.

Sorry.


Not really true these days.

For instance, see:
http://www.kbvis.com

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