Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Nazrix

Yet Another Thought on Magic

Recommended Posts

What if magic was delt w/ more as it would be in the middle ages? I was thinking it would be interesting if the player could choose to learn magic, but it would mean that most of the inhabitants of the world would fear and hate them. There may be a very small group that would deal w/ magic but all the inhabitants of the world would hate them and accuse them of dealing with evil. It would be very interesting if there was that balance. The player could use magic but if any NPCs saw him they'd gather a mob together and try to kill him or get the guards after him or something. Another thing I just thought of is what if the player really did have to deal with gods to get those powers? The player may have to do favours for the gods in order to get different spells. Some of the gods may be good and some evil. Just some ideas... "All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. Edited by - Nazrix on 11/4/00 4:36:38 PM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think balance for magic should be done by reintroducing spell components. It was a great idea and still is. Make the great spells hard to cast by making the materials hard to get. I remember another post sorta like that. But anyways, spell componets (Sulpher and a rock for a fireball for instance) could be interesting. And if you don''t set the components in stone, players could experiment by adding in different components to make different spells.

I think it was the Glyphs guy, and he suggested that you had to find these Glyphs to use them, and they could break and stuff. It is probably a better idea than spell components, plus he has already formulated a plan for how to create new spells by mixing Glyphs.

And the townspeople should hate you if you were a magic user But, you should have some way of achieveing a status where people respect you, too, sorta like Merlin.

-Blackstream

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Or Kulgan and Pug for that matter...

Glyphs guy = Solthar

Good Idea Naz... I will do a write up

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Having item-based anything and expecting rarity is silly, unless you hard-limit the number of items in the world at once... and then you have people who have no business with the items, holding the items practically for ransom at the severe expense of those who actually want or need the items.

Take, for example, the UO server of which I was part of the admin team. We had pagan reagents (very rare) that could be gotten from various areas in the world, that were required by the magic system. By the time we changed over to a different system, all the warriors had hoarded the mage-items, and mage-ing became very difficult simply because of this.

I would say, use reagents for a reason, not just to limit mages. Make things logical and realistic and "make sense", and then there is no room for complaint.



MatrixCubed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, but regeants have been used before. I was trying to think of something new. Note that I was speaking of using this more in single-player, story-based games.


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Nazrix

Yeah, but regeants have been used before. I was trying to think of something new. Note that I was speaking of using this more in single-player, story-based games.




Aha! Thanks for the clarification (I was just about to ask).

I really like the idea, especially of being able to see and affect the internal workings of something you just take for granted (I have in my head this cool animation of your character palming the rocks, spreading the sulfur, and making an enchantment, then hurtling the stone)

A suggestion: If magic is rare, it should be powerful. No, more powerful than that (whatever you're thinking )

The reason I say this is for the practice thing I bring up from time to time. If the player doesn't get to use something much (depending on the interface) then there's no time to practice. Imagine playing a FPS where jumping is critical to win at the end but most levels don't ever let you practice it.

Also, if not powerful enough magic becomes less meaningful because not only is it rare, but the work needed isn't equivalent to the reward.

Another thing: If not magic (unfortunately often synonomous with combat), then you need some meat and potatoes activity. Normally the wizard is pretty weak, so this will cause you trouble (unless you can interact with combat in more creative ways, like the talking your way out approach mentioned in another post)



--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

Edited by - Wavinator on November 4, 2000 10:51:27 PM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A PP RPG I know use this very system to limit the use of magic:

The world is dreamed by dragons (well known fact...) and magic consists in influencing the dragons into dreaming something specific. Twice the dragons have been awakened by too much magic usage, each time the world have been almost destroyed...
Now it is the third age and magic user are persona non grata...
You can be a mage, but if it is known you have to run fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
by Wav
Aha! Thanks for the clarification (I was just about to ask).



Yeah, I often forget to specify which leads to a lot of undesired presumptions, so I'm learning to include what type of game I am envisioning


Yeah, I hadn't thought as much about the mechanics of how you'd cast a spell as much as how the townspeople would view a character throwing fireballs in a world where magic is rare.

They'd probably be very frightened...and fear leads to hate pretty easily...so that's where the limitation upon magic would come in. You could use magic but most people may not trust the player...

Dungeon, I like that dragon's dream concept...pretty interesting.


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on November 4, 2000 11:05:07 PM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I end up writing up a "plot element" section, it will definitely be there.... And how did you know that I dream of worlds

Anyway - About the reagent hoarding... I think I have a Multiplayer cure. Expiry dates . They just crumble after a certain time, and they reappear naturally in the world... What do you think of that... The Admin might be screwed, but they could always have a hacked reagent that doesn''t expire

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Nazrix
They''d probably be very frightened...and fear leads to hate pretty easily...so that''s where the limitation upon magic would come in. You could use magic but most people may not trust the player...



Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering - A very old and very wise ma... Yoda

I would really like to see some magic capping... I might just bring up that topic

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Um, rarity does not neccessarily mean a limited number, it just means it is harder to get.

Say we have a very powerful spell, called, oh say... Light of Dawn. Maybe the attack would be this gigantic laser beam or something. The components could be a piece of coiled metal, a mirror pointing at the sun, and a ruby. Now, make the extremely rare item the ruby. There are several ways to make it rare, without putting it in limited quantities.

#1: Have a store sell rubies for a rediculusly high price that would take you a while to get. Then, it is still rare, and would make you think twice about getting it. (It took me 3 days to get enough money to get that ruby, do I REALLY want to blast that dragon?)

#2: Have like this ruby mine where you can visit, but you have to travel though some really dangerous mountains, where powerful creatures lurk. Then, at the end, you can search for rubies. You could say that all the rubies in the mine had been taken by various creatures and you had to find a creature with the ruby. You could try to bargin the ruby from the creature or just kill it or something. The creatures would be really tough, so you would probably have to teleport back home before you were killed at that point.

#3: (Improved version of 2) Make it so that only certain, hard to find, powerful creatures had rubies, and those guys only had rubies a small percentage of the time. There wouldn''t be a monopoly on rubies because there would be an unlimited number. However, they would be very hard to find.

#4: First off, you need a really big world. Now, have this portal that takes you into a room where one ruby is held. After you take the ruby and go back though the portal, the portal teleports to a random part of the world, where it waits for the next adventurer (and refills it''s one ruby as well).

There, I hoped one of those answered your objection MatrixCubed.

-Blackstream

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites