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NeHe

Attacks, Bitching, etc.

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I see I''m under attack more than ever these days. A large majority of you have nothing good to say but you continually stop by to spout out crap. So ... I stopped visiting the forum. Now you complain I''m not here. Q&A Gossip, Rumours, Ideas: Q: should we add a Q&A section to the site? A: YES... I have been saying that for a LONG time! Q: Why isn''t it there then? A: I don''t have time! Q: Does NeHe steal code? A: Not at all. I have never stole code, I never plan to, and I''m pissed off people think I have. Anyone that has ever done a tutorial for the site has gotten full credit at the end and of the tutorial, and 90% of the time, they have their own credits, and such in the code! In regards to tutorials I have written, I have looked at how other peoples code works, but I doubt you will ever see a line for line copy of code. I ALWAYS rewrite the code, strip out parts I don''t need, etc. I have been told through email you guys have a discussion about the TGA code. Q: What the hell are you doing that''s more important than running the site, and catering to us and only us. A: My mom has cancer, my brothers kidneys work at 5%, my dad is having a hard time with his business, I''m working my ass off to help everyone out. In regards to the site, I''m making CD''s, packaging CD''s, trying to get sponsors, trying to get demos, trying to get new tutorials and trying to keep everyone here happy (on the forum in email, etc)! I get about 40-200 emails a day asking for help! Q: Why don''t you get a helper? A: I dont have anything to offer a helper. I''m anal about what goes on the site, and how the site looks. I don''t know the skill level of anyone out there! Q: You must be making some money!?! A: I just made $200 (first payment ever from gamedev). In ONE day, that $200 went towards paying for new CD''s to ship out. I also received two checks from my merchant for $70 each. That $140 shipped 10 CD''s. I still have 30 to ship. You think I''m making anything... you''re WRONG! I make absolutely nothing from this site, as a matter of fact, it''s taking hundreds of dollars out of my pocket every week! Q: Why don''t we have collision, Bezier, Shadow, Metaball, etc. Tutorials? A: You want to write em, go ahead. I have no time right now. Final statement: If you don''t appreciate the work I do, if you have NOTHING good to say, if you don''t believe in cutting a guy slack when he''s struggling his ass off, then don''t bother coming here! If I''m going to be attacked for not living up to your expectations then obviously I''m not good enough for you! As a final remark about my code, and stealing ideas. I was writing demos back when 3dfx released their VERY first GL driver to the public. If I somehow managed to steal the base code I have now from someone back in that period of time, don''t you think they would have pointed it out by now!?!

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AP: It''s because, like a lot of things that are given for free, consumers will whine and complain because it isn''t free enough. NeHe spent his time designing the website, setting up the code, putting together the tutorials, and gods-know what else. I''m strictly a Direct3D programmer (taking a backseat for now because of limited time), and I don''t want to touch OpenGL for a little while longer, but when I do, I will probably go to NeHe''s site first, simply because there IS no other site that is so wholly oriented around teaching how to program in OpenGL (as opposed to, how to use the API).

NeHe: Don''t worry about pissant whiners, or negative people like AP here. They, in the end, only ruin things for the contributors to the game developers'' community. You do great work, and I''ll thank you early for the QueryPerformanceCounter tutorial you gave, which I now use in my own game engine.

(By the way, I turned it into a separate class, so if you''d like the code, by all means email me.)


MatrixCubed

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i think nehe''s site is useful, lots of good info, the tutorials help out a lot, and show how to do new stuff in a nice easy manner...
as for code stealing, thats just plain silly - there are only so many ways you can load a tga file!! - and if you look on the web you''ll find them repeated thousands of times

i think its a great shame that people come here to complain about stuff - this is free speech gone bad...you wouldn''t go to nehe''s house and tell him he''s crap or he''s a thief so you shouldn''t do it here. Have some manners for gods sake! and if you don''t like it here leave... also if you have a personal grievance (like him not acknowledging YOUR OWN work), why not mail nehe direct? instead of wasting space in this forum

alistair

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Its a real shame you''ve decided to stop the site altogether, but I understand that you need a break.

You posted this
"
Q: Why don''t you get a helper?
A: I dont have anything to offer a helper. I''m anal about what goes on the site, and how the site looks. I don''t know the skill level of anyone out there!
"

I would be happy to help you out m8, with no need for anything. I can help with the website and I know everything anyone can from reading just your tutorials..

I''m not excellent as far as OpenGL goes, but I would be happy to help in anyway possible...

I''m sorry for your situation m8, hope things clear up for you...

~Cobra~

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I only just began learning openGL, and in the beginning, i found it extremely difficult to find tutorials on how to even setup simple base code with the stupid thing. NeHe''s site helped me understand the basic concepts of using OpenGL for 3d programming. Ever since discovering his site, i''ve been visiting this place everyday.
What i do not understand is this: why cant NeHe just ignore what goes on? It''s like some criminals out there on the streets, they have something loose in their skulls & continue to assult & abuse people, destroy things etc. You think that if you sell your house & car that these criminals will just go away? Likewise, people out there with something loose in their heads are always going to diss any webmaster out there running a site which helps newbies. Hey, maybe thats an idea, maybe these ''professional programmers'' are getting ticked off because they can no-longer show off their pathetic 3d games to people who dont know how to do it, because they can just come here and make it themselves. *sigh* enough from me.. time to find a new site to hang out on.

- wAVaRiaN

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To the 10% that he is refering to : What the hell is wrong with you people? Are you so insecure with your pathetic lives that you have nothing better to do than to insult someone who is doing nothing more than sharing knowledge? He wasn't gaining ANYTHING from the TGA code, WE were! He didn't have to write tutorials, he did it because he knew some people cared. You stupid bastards will one day wake up and realize that just because you feel less than someone else doesn't mean that you can try to make them feel like crap and pick apart everything they do. I hope you all die a slow and painful death (10%).




Edited by - Firetop on November 4, 2000 9:19:36 PM

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Hi


I just have to say something is totally wrong with someone who would complain at Nehe for whatever reasons. At the end of the day Nehe is not gaining anything buy helping the people that come to his site and he must have help thousands of people in the form of having a site that teaches people from scratch how to program in OpenGL. Also In case I have missed them there are not many if any sites that are as good as Nehe''s.

I don’t think anyone can blame nehe for stopping due to the pressure he is under, but this is a sad day and the people who have brought this on by crying and whining are also sad.

As for the TGA code well - its quite obvious that the people who complain are nothing but jealous of what Nehe has created, how about putting the energy into something creative and do something instead of trying to ruin things for other people.

Hay Nehe don’t let them get you down man, in the end they are not worth it. And either way if you do or do not decide to start the site up again its been informative. And thanks, and lastly good luck to all your family I hope everything works out for you all


3DG.

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This is, by far, the worst tragedy I''ve ever seen. To Binory and anyone else who claims Jeff stole something, let me tell you this: YOUR loading code is no more original than anyone else''s, son! As a programmer with quite a bit of experience, I must say that you are WAY out of line to think that Jeff ripped your code--there is NO SUCH THING as totally original code! NONE. You want to argue this point? Fine, write your own damn programming language, THEN open your pie whole.

To Jeff: My friend, I''ve been a staunch fan of your website since I found it in spring, and I''ve never seen a better place to learn from. I feel deeply sorry that your family situation is as it stands, and I wish there were something more that could be done to help you and yours out right now. If you need time away from your site, then by all means--TAKE IT! You DESERVE to have time off every now and then.... I look at my busy schedule and think I''m swamped, yet then I consider all you''re going through and I can''t see how you manage. Makes my life seem easy...

Anyway, my point is that I hope you won''t give up on your site completely, as it is obviously something you love. Your tutorials are EXCELLENT, and they help us newbie OGL''ers out so much that that is why I ordered your disc. Your attention to detail is admirable, and I''d hate to see NeHe Productions go down for good....

To those who would seek to defame or hurt Jeff with your absurd remarks and bullshit statemnts:

You people are the trash that I walk on everyday, and you should be ashamed or yourself. You think you look any better than Jeff by slandering him?? Think again; you just let your own remarkable ignorance shine through when you speak crudely of him.

To those who support Jeff and his site: PLEASE let him know that you appreciate what he does. I, for one, don''t want to lose one of the coolest places online for learning OpenGL on the ''Net, and I hope that many of you feel the same way, as well.

NeHe Productions is important to many people.... Those who would speak ill of it and its proprietor should be considered annoying background noise in the grand scheme of things. Best wishes to you, Jeff, and to your family. I hope that when the storm winds have blown away, NeHe Productions will continue to stand....

--David

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Hmmm...
"If / When the site is back online there will no longer be a forum, that I know for sure. I put the forum on the site so the top notch programmers could help out those people that were struggling when I was not there for them, or when I was unable to help people out myself. Instead it''s turned into an anti-NeHe forum."
I have only seen once or twice anything on the forum that attacked Jeff... and there was that insecure guy who seemed to only be able to swear, but I think he''s gone now.

It''s a pity the site had to close, it was a nice site to learn GL stuff off... hopefully it will be back in future, if not, any chance of putting back up the existing tutorials and simply not updating??

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I just wanted to say that i think you do an awesome job with your site. It is probably the best opengl site to goto if you want to learn opengl. And i recomend anyone that wants to learn it to check out your tutorials. I have learned a ton from your site and I believe that the tutorials you offered were the best commented and easiest to learn from. I was only hopeing someone could make a site like yours for D3D. I''m extremely sorry to hear that your site is closed down.. I think that is very sad and that we have lost a large resource. Are your tutorials atleast posted somewere else for people to look at? Because I really think they are an asset to this community. Anyway i know a lot of people who really thought your site was awesome. Don''t let all these negative posts get you down. There are alot of people out there who have no respect for what hard work it is. And i admire you alot. I presonnally have wanted to set up a tutorial site like yours but have been way to busy to keep up with all the work it takes to make a site and keep it updated. I wanted to thank you for all the time you have spent and sacrificed for us. It helped me out imensely and i''m sure others as well. Thanks for everything and i hope you will consider just leaving your site up there for now even if its not updated for people to be able to learn from. I''m sure there are a ton of people out there who appreciate your work as well... but just don''t voice there opinion while people who like cutting things down are more vocal. Thank you and i hope to see your site back up soon.

--FUEL

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Guest Anonymous Poster
This is bad i just started learning OpenGL about three weeks ago this site is not one of the best but "THE BEST" OpenGL sites I''ve ever visited on the net, and to se it down just makes me extremely angry. All tutorials and things are given to you all with out charge, code and all but yet you all want to bitch about the simplest things that make no sence. I have never seen someone so devoted to the people like NeHe. He works hard at keeping the site updated. To that 10% of imbeciles I abhor you all for treating NeHe the way you all did. And if you don''t know the meaning of abhor look it up in the dictionary, now if you want to know the meaning of imbecile than look in the mirror. NeHe I hope all gets better for you I wish the best man, and I hope you get the site back up for all the newbies like I who give this site aleast 10-20 hits a day. This site motivated me to learning OpenGL. I wake up at 5:30am in the moring to go to school I stay untile about 6:00 or 7:00pm than I ride the bus home; by the time I''m home it''s already 9:00pm so I do all my homework and in what little free time that I have I get on the computer and code in OpenGL. Before I even visites NeHe''s site I only new of DirectX, and when I found OpenGL I found a new love. To see this site go down is just ghastly. If I new how to code better than what I do now i would offer NeHe help but I don''t so all the trouble of updating it was left to NeHe who bent over backwards for all his visitors to keep the site looking good; he did all or aleast 70% of what the visitors requested him to do and in return for all that he has done for you all he gets crap back in return. O this is ugly you stoled the TGA file loading code blah, blah, blah, ok lets see you get off your but and look for 10 different ways to load a TGA file NO better yet 15 to make it better I bet you wouldn''t find 15 ways to load a Targa file. I loathe all that have done or said wrong towards NeHe. Jeff Molofee AKA: NeHe don''t close the site down keep it going keep the fire burning don''t put the fire out that will only show that 10% of idiots that they have accompolished their goal to make you (NeHe) close down NeHe Productions. Sorry for all the hatered in this letter, but I hate to see things i really like to just disappear, and for those of you that support NeHe this is not towards you but this Letter Is Twoards YOU All that given NeHe nothing but smart remarks and hate mail. This site was never started to make it a battle ground for crap liek hate mail, but it was started for those of you that like programming and want to know more about OpenGL this site was written for the inquisitive people and when I say inquisitive people I mean people that are eagared to learn more about OpenGL; people like me who stay glued to their monitor waiting for more news, demos. and tutorials from NeHe. Give the man some slack people he''s only but one man doing the job of 12 men; that I say is a hard working person that deserves the best, and the best is that your problems will disappear because your a good man NeHe.



Well this is me signing out a good Anonymous Poster.

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Well, I''ll try to say it clearly:

AAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
WHAT''S-GOING-ON??

I''m amazed. Ashtonished. I''ve never used this forum (I have no Internet at home), but I think now''s the moment. PLEASE, PLEASE, DON''T LEAVE US, Nehe. Your tutes have been the only good reference that I''ve found! If you leave me (us) alone, I (we) will NEVER be able to learn OpenGL. Really.

You are making a really GOOD site. And that''s not usual. I think what you are doing is a too nice thing that shouldn''t end because a couple of headcrabs crying!!

Don''t pay attention to them: Your page was simply wonderful.

Of course, if what you need is some kind of holidays, please take them. If for any reason you are coming to Seville (Spain) there will be a room for you at my home. OK?

Please! Please! Please! Hang on there!!


A spanish OpenGL Beginner.

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Well I never expected this. Jeff I can 100% relate to your plight. I get the same treatement at the CornflakeZone just not in the same volume. I wish you luck and my thoughts will be with you over the Christmas holidays.

I''m hoping we can get the tutorials back up? If anyone has them downloaded, send them to me and I''ll host them (with full credit to Jeff ). I found them invaluable when I was learning openGL and would hope people can still find them useful. In the interim I''d like to offer my services to the community. I have hosting, space etc. with no ads and zero revenue. It''s just something I do. The biggest thing I''ll miss is the news. It''s going to be so boring without anywhere to go now for news. If people want to send me stuff I''ll post it. mailto:mainflake@cornflakezone.com

The second it gets abusive I stop. Zero tolerance.

Take care Jeff,
fs

http://www.CornflakeZone.com
//-- Modelling and animation in every dimension --//

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Guest Anonymous Poster
NEHE YOU SAD GIT EITHER TAKE THE SITE DOWN OR LEAVE IT UP JUST STOP ALL THIS PITY PARTY-ING AND WHINING.

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Hmm... it seems odd to me that fshana would post supporting NeHe, and then a few minutes later, make an anonymous post (the one above this) with the opposite sentiment.

Update: It seems one of fshana's coworkers played a joke on him, and has since admitted to posting that message using fshana's computer. As far as I'm concerned, fshana is a loyal NeHe supporter.

Jeff, send me an e-mail and let's talk about what we can do to keep the site up.

Edited by - Myopic Rhino on November 5, 2000 2:02:03 PM

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What really amazes me is that i never hear about the problems in email. I did not even know everyone was flaming me until someone emailed me and said "don''t listen to the guys talking about you stealing code".

I was like "WHAT!?!". Then I go into the forum and yeah, 2 screens of flames. To top if off, people I talk to every day in email, people I would consider friends jumping in to say what a poor coder I am etc.

Then the thing that bothered me the most. People on #opengl basically getting together to talk about what a moron I am. What have I EVER done to any of these people? I would think they would like the site. Perhaps not for the tutorials, but because I''ve accomplished what I set out to do, and that was to get as many people interested in OpenGL as I could. At the moment, OpenGL is HUGE!!! I''m not saying my site had anything to do with that, but my site is involved in getting people interested!

In regards to my coding... it pisses me off that people cut down anything I do! My gf, my brother, anyone that knows me will tell you that I can sit down at any computer internet or not, and create a full blown GL demo in under 2 hours. Maybe my demos are not amazing, but if I can do that, I''m pretty sure I know how to code. If my coding style is bad, I''m very sorry, but I have NEVER taken programming courses, everything I know is self taught in just 3 years. As for me corrupting new programmers, I state everywhere on my site, that once people know the basics they should check out better sites, I have links galore on my page! I''m not forcing ANYONE to use my code. They don''t even have to use it to learn if they don''t want.

Aside from the tutorials everyone seems to hate so much, I offer the latest GL news, I feature just about anyones code, and I help about 40-200 people a day in email!

Plus as many of you know, I have helped you out with code for your games, demos, etc. Nothing expected in return.

Basically I''m just an average guy TRYING to make a site that everyone enjoys coming to. I''m trying to make things better every day. It seems the better I try to make the site, the more flaming I get!

It''s just crazy! If half these people that "hate" me would take the time to get to know me, or at least offer suggestions, point out problems, 90% of the complaining would stop, and I''m sure everyone would see that I''m not a bad guy. I''d do anything for a friend, and I''m pretty much the same way to my visitors!


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Hi there Nehe,

This message goes out to you and not all these useless wankers who keep knocking you down.

You site has helped me out tremendously. I believe that you have what it takes !!! You are a damn good coder !! Ignore these guys who keep bitching !! Where are there demo''s, sites etc... ???

It is a known fact that jealousy makes a person nasty .. end of story.

I respect you so much, and visiting your site is an honor to all who choose to do so. You have so many loyal followers. Unfortunately not all can be pleased, so stuff them !!!

I do however believe that you should take a break to be with your family. You are very hard working, and I know that you put other ahead of yourself. You owe it to yourself to take a break.

My plea is that you reconsider about closing your site. If the forum is where you are getting flamed, then trash it, but not your site.

I would glady help you out with your site.

I am a owner of a nice site too, and I know what it is like to get flamed all the time.

Please mail me if you need help at all, I would gladly help.

Hang in there bro, and know that there are thousands of people who are your fans -- enough said.

Thanks
Erick Grove

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Please see the "Thank you NeHe" post. You are one heck of a guy (in the best possible way). You are better than half the industry''s "best". You take your own time to help others. You deserve a heck of a lot, NeHe.

"Any statements made by the above poster are strictly opion (unless otherwise stated) and may be offensible to some readers."

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Erick
You site has helped me out tremendously. I believe that you have what it takes !!! You are a damn good coder !! Ignore these guys who keep bitching !! Where are there demo''s, sites etc... ???



To answer your question, Erick, you can find the very cool free game that B1n0ry is developing here:
http://arrakis.dune2k.com/

Also, you can find Nate''s excellent tutorial site here:
http://nate.scuzzy.net/



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NeHe:

Your site is free. As such, no one has any right to complain about what is does or does not offer. You are under absolutely no obligation to provide anything to anyone. If I don''t find what I''m looking for on a site, I go elsewhere.

The fact that people hang around to complain shows that they aren''t actually interested in finding good information. Rather, they''d like to classify as much as possible as "bad", because they thus look better in comparison. The same goes for people worrying about others'' coding skill. I''d rather spend my time improving my own.

Your tutorials obviously meet a demand, or you wouldn''t get as many hits as you do, or as many people defending you as you do. If your site is not to someone''s liking, then they should either leave, or better yet, make their own site.

If you feel the need to take a break, by all means, do so. You don''t owe anyone anything.

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Myopic Rhino, it doesn''t really surprise me, as I said. People I consider friends, say one thing to me, then turn around and stab me in the back the minute they have a chance.

In regards to your post Francis. The site was down, gone. I had no intention of putting it back up, you can ask my gf, very upset, but after taking the site off I was flooded with email. What did the email say? You''re punishing those people that enjoy the site because of a few bad apples. Why should I do that? I don''t want to hurt anyone, I''m just fed up. YOU should know. You run a site. Is it easy? I doubt it. Now add major life problems to the mix. Hours at the hospital visiting your brother, coming home to hate mail. How would you feel?

I''m not going for sympathy, and if it appears that way you are mistaken. I had email from universities, friends, and people I''ve never spoke with before. If someone is willing to write to me, even though they have never spoke with me before then I have to listen. The site is on hold and I guarantee it will be on hold for a few weeks at the least. But it wont die. I''ve spent three years of my life making this site what it is today. I have put hundreds of hours into the site. I update this site on a daily basis. It would be stupid for me to give up what I love.
No matter what the reason may be. I''d just be unhappy in the long run!


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Forget these clowns NeHe. Grab a beer and chill. Once they get layed they will settle down a bit and realize there are lots of things out there that are more important than harassing good people. You are all good.

I wanrned you! Didn't I warn you?! That colored chalk was forged by Lucifer himself!

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Idiots, everywhere... The internet just isn''t the place it used to be. Fucking lamerz everywhere. They just can''t respect the hard work of some creative people. Jeff is surely one of the people that gives far more to the community than he receives. It''s a good idea to stop the site for some time, I''m sure nobody can stand all those idiots all day long

Tim

--------------------------
glvelocity.gamedev.net
www.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity

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