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Unity Software engineering job title

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Hello, there are two people in a very mad argument, and I trust this community to say the wisedom: Guy1 has got a degree in "Electronic and computer engineering" Guy2 has got a degree in "Computer science" They both work as programmers, or as software engineers... Guy1 claims that Guy2 does not deserve the "Software Engineer" title because he's not an engineer. Guy2 thinks software engieering title is best suited for computer science degrees than electronic and computer engieering... What will happen in real-world ?

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In the real world, no-one cares. I am officially a "Software Engineer", but my job involves just about zero programming - mostly documentation and testing.

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Strictly speaking, since neither have a degree in Software Engineering, neither are Software Engineers.

In the real world, both are Software Engineers if that's what their job titles are.

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Quote:
Original post by JohnBolton
Strictly speaking, since neither have a degree in Software Engineering, neither are Software Engineers.


Agreed! SE != CE != EE != CS, even though they share overlapping fields of study. I am currently working for my degree in SE and I am doing a few things different from friends in CS and a lot of things different than friends in EE. So between those two, they are both Software Programmers. Please do not tell me these are adults seriously arguing over this title...

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Guest Anonymous Poster
And in the real world I work as a "Software Engineer", but got a degree in a physical engineering subject. That-way I claim that I am definately an engineer & feel that software is the most suiable moniker for what I engineer :rolleyes:

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For fun, you should go over to the people in the hardware engineering department and ask them if either of them should even be called "engineers".

-me

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Quote:
Original post by Drew_Benton
Please do not tell me these are adults seriously arguing over this title...


Actually yes, at least I am still a student in CS in the second year, and this buddy, believe it or not, is almost 30 years old. and he's the one who's bringing this up everytime. it is maybe in his opinion that I shouldn't get this title because I should be an "ENGINEER" first. I keep on telling him that is what I do ( as a job in the company ) yet he's still on it, so I thought to show him the opinion of others.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
I have taken several software engineering courses at my university and I am a CS major. Our software engineering classes recently got rated second in the US with standford's program being at the top of the list. So I would consider myself knowledgable enough to be considered software engineer even though my actual field of study is CS.

NOTE - software engineering deals with design issues (lots of writting of documentation) and testing practices. If the person does not do this, they are not a software engineer.

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Quote:
Original post by Palidine
For fun, you should go over to the people in the hardware engineering department and ask them if either of them should even be called "engineers".
That's a good one ;)

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Guy1 has a point; Guy2's not trained to be an engineer, he's trained to be a scientist. Guy1 completely lacks the foundation to be a SE, but Guy2 isn't there yet either.

Quote:
The Reindeer Effect
Especially since most of the guys in the hardware engineering department pay money to be titled as a licensed engineer.


In the US usually only professional civil engineers are certified and licensed, and public works require a licensed civil engineer to sign off on them. In the EE & ME worlds the certification doesn't mean so much.

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Strictly speaking, neither of them can call themselves software engineers.

How about you toss them a banana and let them fight over who the code monkey is.

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IMO I think Magmai describes it well. But without going into semantics, I think Guy2 is definitely *closer* to a SE than Guy1, based on what they were "trained" in. For a job title, well that depends on specifically what they do on the job!

Change it to "Software Developer" if you want, I think it's more general.

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i went to dictionary.com and got this for "engineer":

To plan, construct, or manage.
To plan, manage, and put through by skillful acts or contrivance; maneuver.
1: a person who uses scientific knowledge to solve practical problems

So if you do those things your an engineer. Whether your a custodial engineer(janitor), software engineer(programmer), or civil engineer.

Everyone from janitors to circus clowns are being called "engineers" these days so the old school engineers are getting kind of defensive about the title.

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Quote:
Original post by Shining Blue
i went to dictionary.com and got this for "engineer":

To plan, construct, or manage.
To plan, manage, and put through by skillful acts or contrivance; maneuver.
1: a person who uses scientific knowledge to solve practical problems

So if you do those things your an engineer. Whether your a custodial engineer(janitor), software engineer(programmer), or civil engineer.

Everyone from janitors to circus clowns are being called "engineers" these days so the old school engineers are getting kind of defensive about the title.


Well the dictionary definition is nice but things don't kinda work that way in the real world.. In reality it really depends on which country you are in as to whether you can hold the title of an 'engineer' as well as depending on your academic qualifications..

I kno in some countries you need some kind of official qualification/certificate from either a royal charter or another professional body before you can call yourself or work as an 'engineer' (doing otherwise would be illigal and there can be very severe actions taken against you).. This is also the case for many other professions such as medicine, law and many more (although probably alot stricter with the others.. you can't claim to be a doctor unless you are qualified under a professional body, otherwise your not qualified as far as the state is concerned.. regardless of how many books u may have read..lol)

I personally don't see the point in having so many different titles to computation and IT degrees..

Granted some a widely different but some are so similar its a joke.. At my university I'm in my final yr studying Software Engineering and my friend takes literally ALL my modules (and has done for the last two yrs) yet he will graduate with a BSC while i'll graduate with an BEng..

So why does the difference of two or three modules in the space of a 3 yr degree course, warrant the need to have two seperate degree's in two seperate fields?

I mean where all gonna graduate and get the same jobs NEways so????

Its just mashed-up..

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Well if you don't get an engineering degree you can't legally call yourself an engineer. THere are Zero valid software engineering degree's offered in North America.

To use the term engineer you must practice engineering under a certified engineer for 4 years, have gotten an engineering degree from an accredited university/college, that means you taked courses in fluid mechanics, thermodynamics and an ethics course.

No Computer Science student can legally use the term Software Engineer, it just makes you look foolish:) and it may upset a potential employer if they are an actual engineer.

Cheers
Chris

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There seems to be too much focus on the person's formal education as opposed to *what* he is doing in his/her job. If you have a Computer Science degree and work on the shipping dock, you will probably have a title like Shipping Clerk because your job title is about your function in the company. You already have your degree (s) to describe the type of education you received. Please also consider that someone who can graduate with a Computer xxx degree or am xxx Engineering degree might be perfectly capable to come up to par on the "missing" software engineering skills they did not learn in school. If the company feels they function capably in their role as "Software Engineer" then that's a pretty good reason to stick them with that title. One other thought - if they hand you their business card and it says "Software Engineer" then you can make assumptions about the person's knowledge and capabilities. It doesn't really matter at that point in which order or what manner those abilities were acquired and put into practice.

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The IEEE Computer Society defines Software Engineering as
"(1) The application of a systematic, disciplined, quantifiable
approach to the development, operation, and maintenance of
software; that is, the application of engineering to software.
(2) The study of approaches as in (1)."

As long as they do that in their work, they have a reason for calling theirselves "Software Engineers."

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i agree. i agree. The word engineer wasn't originally meant to be a title. It's simply a verb or a noun. It's a verb that can be applied to many different things from physical structures, to abstract ideas(software) to just about anything.

I do think there needs to be strict qualifications so you don't hire some fool to design a sky skrapper. But don't hijack the word "engineer" and comdemn anyone who hasn't paid thier bill the the engineer police.

How is a civil engineer's job of calculating a good bandwith(lanes) for a highway any different than a computer scientist determining the bandwith of a network topology?

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The problem is that the word Engineer automatically implies some on with an engineering degree. So it abosultely has to refer to there education.

Its similar to me saying I'm a PHD of computer science because I've programmed for 30 years even though I have no acutal degree.

Cheers
Chris

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At my uni it went like this:

Comp Eng - mostly about hardware
Comp Sci - mostly about software
Soft Eng - mostly about design/testing/doco

They overlap, but they are 3 different area's of the same field. In the real world? no one really cares. Your job won't be based on "exactly" what you studied at uni - its not like a comp eng guy can't get a code job, or a comp sci guy can't get a design job. But like its been said neither comp sci or comp eng are software engineers. I wouldn't wanna be a software engineer anyway - i hate documentation!!!! Give me code anyday!

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Quote:
Original post by Daher_Q3A
You can work as a software engineer, but you cannot work as a software professor ... job title, not education title... :)


I'm not sure if you agree with me or not??

The fact still stands, its illegal to use the term engineer, in Canada atleast if you don't have an engineering degree, that means you have an iron ring, and you've taken courses in fluid mechanics, thermodynamics etc.

People do use the term Software Engineer, but its not legally recognized,again in Canada atleast. I'm not saying people shouldn't call themselves Software Engineer's, I"m just letting them know that its illegal, again, in Canada atleast:)

Cheers
Chris

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