Quote:Original post by rick_appleton<!–QUOTE–></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE><!–/QUOTE–><!–ENDQUOTE–><br><br>Thanks, you've just made my job with the other thread (<a href="http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=306997">link</a>) a whole lot easier to manage. [smile]
Ten games every designer should play
That was the basic idea. Besides which, I'm bored :D
I'm not so sure about putting these in categories, since you'll always have games that span categories. Do you add them to both then?
I'm not so sure about putting these in categories, since you'll always have games that span categories. Do you add them to both then?
For now, I'm trying to fit them into whatever they best match, and I'll put notes of crossovers. If it becomes a problem as the list grows, some other system of organisation will probably be needed, but thus far it hasn't presented a major issue. I'm planning to sub-organise the categories alphabetically once I've got a bit more done as well.
What additional information would you provide for each, in addition to:
-title
-some keywords
-link to a website (official or otherwise)
-brief summary
What additional information would you provide for each, in addition to:
-title
-some keywords
-link to a website (official or otherwise)
-brief summary
My 2 pennies...
In no order...
1) Super Ghosts & Ghouls -> Great shout whoever came up with that, innovative mid-air jump and very addictive. Incredibly simple.
2) Ultima Underworld -> Obviously, technically, one of 1st 3D 1st-person games, great story as always.
3) Bloodwych -> Dungeon Master rightly gets all the acclaim for this genre but Bloodwych had very clever dungeon design that used limited creatures to great effect and required no mapping as most areas were fairly segmented (similar to a hub system in a way). No need to map is a definite plus for these games.
4) Civ -> No question.
5) Elite -> For same reasons as civ really.
6) GTA3 -> Elite in a city, a great modern representation of the same values.
7) Rez -> I'm soooo glad someone mentioned this one. Spectacular and innovative.
8) NWN -> Hmm, interesting inclusion as I guess games like this are really very similar but the scope of this one is incredible. Still searching for the *perfect* adventure but the integration of the Aurora toolset with its vast set of features is another plus.
In no order...
1) Super Ghosts & Ghouls -> Great shout whoever came up with that, innovative mid-air jump and very addictive. Incredibly simple.
2) Ultima Underworld -> Obviously, technically, one of 1st 3D 1st-person games, great story as always.
3) Bloodwych -> Dungeon Master rightly gets all the acclaim for this genre but Bloodwych had very clever dungeon design that used limited creatures to great effect and required no mapping as most areas were fairly segmented (similar to a hub system in a way). No need to map is a definite plus for these games.
4) Civ -> No question.
5) Elite -> For same reasons as civ really.
6) GTA3 -> Elite in a city, a great modern representation of the same values.
7) Rez -> I'm soooo glad someone mentioned this one. Spectacular and innovative.
8) NWN -> Hmm, interesting inclusion as I guess games like this are really very similar but the scope of this one is incredible. Still searching for the *perfect* adventure but the integration of the Aurora toolset with its vast set of features is another plus.
Civilization
UFO - Enemy Unknown
System Shock
Doom/Duke Nukem 3D
Subspace
Dune2/WC2/C&C
Star Control 2
Master of orion
Diablo
All blizzard's and westwood's games are worth checking out. Also like looking glass's games aswell.
UFO - Enemy Unknown
System Shock
Doom/Duke Nukem 3D
Subspace
Dune2/WC2/C&C
Star Control 2
Master of orion
Diablo
All blizzard's and westwood's games are worth checking out. Also like looking glass's games aswell.
Actually, Kylotan, this is what the poster wrote :
And if you ask me, I don't think one should look _just_ at computer games when there is so much untapped potential around. I am sorry but it's just plain stupid.
Ahah, yes, I entirely agree with you, which is why you'll notice I mention the Epic 40k game, and the roleplaying game. I can't stand the Battle and 40k.
And don't get me started about the miniatures... since initially I am a painter, I only got interested in the games as an afterthought, really. Anyway, nowadays there are some very serious competitors (for the quality of miniatures), like Confrontation, or Warzone (in Limbo at the moment, I believe) or Void, or Warmachine, gee ...
Well, I started playing Magic more than 10 years ago, and I haven't bought a booster in, pff, quite some time now. Haven't even looked at the new edition with its brand new layout.
No, to tell you the truth I was much more interested in looking at all the new other concepts. Stuff like Vampire the Masquerade (well, based on the roleplaying game anyway), Legend of the Five Rings (the only card game I know of that was so cool they made a roleplaying game out of it!), Dark Age: Feudal Lords, Guardians (and its hilarious extensions), Kabal (based on Nephilim), Doomtrooper (based on the Warzone roleplaying game/wargame), even the recent card game version of Warhammer has its moments.
As for the TSR story, I was just making a point, eh :) Imagine if Electronic Arts had bought them, LOL... at least it stayed in the family, so to speak.
Anyway, read one of the recent game designer books (I loved Chris Crawford's, and Ernest Adams is always a great read), and I would doubt it if they disagreed with me.
Now, what about... I dunno,
The Top Ten Games That Have ALREADY Been Used To Death
Or something like that.
Please guys, open your eyes and realise there are other things that computer games around!
Quote:Technogoth
Partly because of some the comments on a thread about innovation in games, and partly because I think it would be helpful to people. I thought I would start this topic.
What in your opinion are ten games every game designer should play? and why?
And if you ask me, I don't think one should look _just_ at computer games when there is so much untapped potential around. I am sorry but it's just plain stupid.
Quote:Original post by Kylotan
ahw - I think the Warhammer games have some of the worst rules invented. They exist merely to sell the miniatures and have been dumbed down in each successive edition to appeal to younger and younger children. The result these days is that instead of being a game of strategy it's a game of rolling a bucket of dice. (I must type this quietly as my housemate works for Games Workshop...!)
Ahah, yes, I entirely agree with you, which is why you'll notice I mention the Epic 40k game, and the roleplaying game. I can't stand the Battle and 40k.
And don't get me started about the miniatures... since initially I am a painter, I only got interested in the games as an afterthought, really. Anyway, nowadays there are some very serious competitors (for the quality of miniatures), like Confrontation, or Warzone (in Limbo at the moment, I believe) or Void, or Warmachine, gee ...
Quote:And Wizards Of The Coast only really managed to buy TSR (the D+D makers) because TSR were pretty much bankrupt. Magic: The Gathering does have some good mechanics, or at least did do, before that too ended up having to cannibalise and parody itself to continue making it worth buying new cards.
Well, I started playing Magic more than 10 years ago, and I haven't bought a booster in, pff, quite some time now. Haven't even looked at the new edition with its brand new layout.
No, to tell you the truth I was much more interested in looking at all the new other concepts. Stuff like Vampire the Masquerade (well, based on the roleplaying game anyway), Legend of the Five Rings (the only card game I know of that was so cool they made a roleplaying game out of it!), Dark Age: Feudal Lords, Guardians (and its hilarious extensions), Kabal (based on Nephilim), Doomtrooper (based on the Warzone roleplaying game/wargame), even the recent card game version of Warhammer has its moments.
As for the TSR story, I was just making a point, eh :) Imagine if Electronic Arts had bought them, LOL... at least it stayed in the family, so to speak.
Anyway, read one of the recent game designer books (I loved Chris Crawford's, and Ernest Adams is always a great read), and I would doubt it if they disagreed with me.
Now, what about... I dunno,
The Top Ten Games That Have ALREADY Been Used To Death
Or something like that.
Please guys, open your eyes and realise there are other things that computer games around!
TechnoGoth:
"Masters of Orion" is beat hands down by "Stars!"
Stars! is the all time classic 4X game with the biggest following and die hard fans. You can still get e-mail games today quite easily. It features everything in MOO2 and arguably more. For 4X gameplay it is the best.
"Masters of Orion" is beat hands down by "Stars!"
Stars! is the all time classic 4X game with the biggest following and die hard fans. You can still get e-mail games today quite easily. It features everything in MOO2 and arguably more. For 4X gameplay it is the best.
Kazgoroth, what I suggest looking for.
We'll the first thing that stands out to me is that planes dont move as fast as you ground troops which, if I remember right starcraft's does.
Also, they have some nice diversity of units and balance. You have footsoldiers (kbots), tanks, boats, and planes.
What is nice is that in Core Contingency, one side gets an uber unit (the krogoth); however, the other side has a unit that can stun and capture him. Then you can repair him. So if one side your are guaranteed to get that uber unit at a cost, bu the other side can get him cheaper but at much greater risk.
Your commander also has a weapon that can blow anything up, but when they CAN be killed and when the Arm's commander destroy's a Krogoth, he takes damage getting there and when the Krogoth explodes. All in all though this can help you out when people rush you early in the game.
So essentially no one unit can really win you the game. This requires more work, effort, and thinking. Theres more to look for in the game but that should be a good start.
Two sore points with total annihilation though. Poor path finding. Actually the AI in better could be better. But it was made back in '96. No upgrading the units. Albeit they already had a lot of units.
The game is best when you play against another person, as games tend to be.
Also, Cavedog, who made the game went belly up a while back. I did see a copy for sale in NY awhile back and I was shocked. $10.
We'll the first thing that stands out to me is that planes dont move as fast as you ground troops which, if I remember right starcraft's does.
Also, they have some nice diversity of units and balance. You have footsoldiers (kbots), tanks, boats, and planes.
What is nice is that in Core Contingency, one side gets an uber unit (the krogoth); however, the other side has a unit that can stun and capture him. Then you can repair him. So if one side your are guaranteed to get that uber unit at a cost, bu the other side can get him cheaper but at much greater risk.
Your commander also has a weapon that can blow anything up, but when they CAN be killed and when the Arm's commander destroy's a Krogoth, he takes damage getting there and when the Krogoth explodes. All in all though this can help you out when people rush you early in the game.
So essentially no one unit can really win you the game. This requires more work, effort, and thinking. Theres more to look for in the game but that should be a good start.
Two sore points with total annihilation though. Poor path finding. Actually the AI in better could be better. But it was made back in '96. No upgrading the units. Albeit they already had a lot of units.
The game is best when you play against another person, as games tend to be.
Also, Cavedog, who made the game went belly up a while back. I did see a copy for sale in NY awhile back and I was shocked. $10.
Quote:Original post by logain
ummm....no one likes Total Annihilation and everyone likes Starcraft? Pfft... I like both of 'em.
I was pretty surprised to see unrestrained love for Startcraft without mention of Total Annihilation, the other "best RTS ever" that came out at just about the same time. One thing I really liked about TA: dead units can be reclaimed for resources by any construction unit. So if your attack fails to seriously damage your enemy, he'll just reclaim your dead robots and rebuild. Not only have you lost some units, but you've just fed his forces.
Also, the pathfinding was pretty bad, but only when you had more than 250 or so units. Most games don't even let you get that many.
Also, when I see a thread titled "Ten games every designer should play" I hope for a list of obscure but brilliant games, games that might not even be that great, but that contain an element of design not usually explored. Not a list of games EVERYONE has played.
Cool, now we got board games and P&P RPGs showing up...how about sports, those too are games.
Baseball, basketball, soccer (what the rest of the world calls football), vollyball...don't just play the video game versions, get out there and play them for real.
And don't forget "kids" games too...cops-n-robbers, hide and seek, tic-tac-toe, and the one game that should be on everyones list rock/paper/sissors.
Anyway here was my list from a couple pages back:
Monster Rancher - or any one of the princess maker, virtual pet type games where players care for and train a person/creature inorder to win
M.U.L.E. - the stratigy classic
Gran Turismo - another classic
Mutant League Football - for remembering that in the video game realm you can do more then simulate a real world sport.
Robotron - a classic, perfect model of intensity
Super Bomberman - a multiplayer classic
Ikaruga - because you simply must have a classy shoot-em-up...everybit pure gameplay as Tetris, minus the power-up cliches the genre has de-evolved into...others one should player are Radient Silvergun and Mars Matrix
Dig Dug - a often overlooked classic
Sim City - should be self evident
The Lurking Horror - text adventures have the best graphics ever...and thier ability to dive players into such a wide variety of subjects and settings puts the rest of the industry to shame.
Baseball, basketball, soccer (what the rest of the world calls football), vollyball...don't just play the video game versions, get out there and play them for real.
And don't forget "kids" games too...cops-n-robbers, hide and seek, tic-tac-toe, and the one game that should be on everyones list rock/paper/sissors.
Anyway here was my list from a couple pages back:
Monster Rancher - or any one of the princess maker, virtual pet type games where players care for and train a person/creature inorder to win
M.U.L.E. - the stratigy classic
Gran Turismo - another classic
Mutant League Football - for remembering that in the video game realm you can do more then simulate a real world sport.
Robotron - a classic, perfect model of intensity
Super Bomberman - a multiplayer classic
Ikaruga - because you simply must have a classy shoot-em-up...everybit pure gameplay as Tetris, minus the power-up cliches the genre has de-evolved into...others one should player are Radient Silvergun and Mars Matrix
Dig Dug - a often overlooked classic
Sim City - should be self evident
The Lurking Horror - text adventures have the best graphics ever...and thier ability to dive players into such a wide variety of subjects and settings puts the rest of the industry to shame.
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