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Riviera Kid

MMORPG jobs and economy

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if you got a job in an MMORPG how much time can you demand from the player to perform that job. 30 minutes per week? How would you pay them - fixed rate or variable? I would go for fixed rate as this would not lead to people mining 24/7 to increase their wages. How frequently should you recieve wages? every week? Does anyone think that law enforcement could be achieved by the players. Anyone who is a law enforcer would have a list of criminals and would have to track them down. This could get awkward though (players frequently offline). A mix of NPC's and players could work. The players could search for people in any area i.e. forest/caves, and the NPC enforcers would guard the towns. A locator spell could be used or something to that effect. The list of criminals would say which are online and which are not. People would have to own houses so they could get caught when coming home. What jobs do you think could be implemented in an MMORPG. miner law enforcer lumber jack food gatherer / farmer bounty hunter / assasin - similar to law enforcer but you arnt working for the government ???any others??? Also: If a political system was implemented how often do you think the current leader(s) should remain in power. 1 month? 2? How would you tax the citizens? Thankyou for your time.

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You might want to add blacksmith to that list... or any of the other multitude of -smiths for that matter. One problem I see with this system, though, is enticing people into taking the more... mundane jobs. A huge portion of the players will probably be hack n slashers who see the game as nothing but an engine for increasing their levels, getting the biggest sword, and stroking their egos. Could you imagine a player like that being a farmer on the side? All things being equal, I envision a city of 1000 law enforcers/assassins, and maybe thirty of each other job; that is unless you either limit things (a rather heavy-handed option which could ruin the game atmosphere if you didn't come up with a very good in-game reason) or make farming enjoyable enough or profitable enough for people to actually want to do it.

As for politics, my first instinct says that one month sounds about right, but the length of a term in office would depend greatly on what powers, responsibilities, and/or perks the job would entail, aside from setting tax rates, etc. One way to tax people would be to take it directly from their income: whenever a bounty hunter turns in a criminal worth 100 gold, they would only receive, say, 95 instead, with the other 5 going to the government. It could also be reflected in adjusted prices from NPC merchants. If you plan on having PC merchants, you could charge them rent for booths within the city where they could sell their wares (this could also reduce the clutter of having ten million merchants everywhere... take a look at the cities on Ragnarok Online. You can hardly walk around with all the merchant bubbles everywhere) and charge them an extra fee from NPC wholesalers who could provide them with stock to sell, albeit they would be cheaper than buying from the normal NPC retailers. Perhaps you could force the PC merchants to buy these wholesale items in bulk so that they're encouraged to sell them for a profit instead of just farming items for personal use.

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i thought about blacksmiths/metalsmiths but i would find that job nearly impossible to replicate in a game. The only part you would play is selling the equiptment. How would you craft a sword in game?

i would need to have higher pay for the more mundane jobs as these jobs would not help you level up as much as you would by fighting as a bounty hunter would.

In real life, lets say you have a rapid increase in the number of plumbers - the plumblers would then be of less value because there are so many and therefore they would get paid less. I could implement something like this to keep the figures balanced.

If there are few people willing to be miners then they will get paid more and will bring more employment to mining.

It seams to me that people are perfectly happy to spend all day mining as i have seen from games like runespace.

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A ps1 RPG called thousand arms had a blacksmithing mini-game.
The master blacksmith shows you a couple of steps which you mimic. rhythm and timing is important. also collecting the proper materials for the work (ie dragon scales, mithril, etc), better hammers for better work.


some other ideas:
as a blacksmith you can mend other players equipment or trade services for needed materials.

perhaps create unique equipment.



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As with most skills based RPGs wouldn't the economy be flooded with firewood, clubs, and animal pelts because that is all the new tradesmen could make? You would have to almost add merchant to the list in order to move excess goods to towns that have a large demand to prevent players from only earning a penny an hour of game play.

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You could implement the economy on a barter system. Goods (which you get from jobs) could be traded for other goods or services. Law enforcers could be used to track down a) people who trade and don't hold up their end of the bargain and b) people who don't pay their taxes.

Tax collectors could be PCs too: they decide if your giving them a fair amount of goods. Goods collected in taxes will be sent to the government to be used by the most trusted of PCs (sortof like moderators) for things like building new towns, hiring mercenaries to attack other nations, etc.

The barter system creates a realistic economy based on supply and demand. A farmer will get a lot of wheat from their harvest, but it will be worth almost nothing because only a little wheat is needed to feed players. On the other side of the spectrum, a weapon smith swaps weapons for high-end items (found on quests, etc) because creating weapons requires a certain amount of ore and theres a high-demand. Basically, if you don't do work, you'll starve to death.

Also, the system creates a whole new level of gameplay: politics. Politicians will tell tax collectors to favor weapons or food depending on their needs. The army (NPCs) needs weapons and food and officers (PCs) need pay to command the army. Politicians basically have a 'magaphone' which lets them give announcements to their underlings from anywhere (or, better yet, they hire mail carriers). If a politician doesnt do a very good job at managing the empire then they will be crushed by other politicians or a player will assassinate them (in which case a new politician will be elected).

The system is relatively easy to implement because the rules arent hard-coded into the game. They come from the interaction of players. If you want to go on a fun adventure, then you'll need to work up the resources first or you'll die.

Another thing, dying shouldn't be taken lightly. It should be very hard to come back from the dead. Since killing another person means being hunted down and killed by the police, not many players will kill for fun.

I've rambled on long enough, hope you like (some) of my suggestions!

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Ragnarok Online and Rose Online(currently free beta stage) both use item/money based economies. Usually little items are used to craft big items (which take high level characters to create, thus taking effort and costing more). NPC's also buy just about every item concievable which helps move more plentiful worthless items along. There's also varying prices (merchants tend to rip players off) so there's always price competition. Something to look at anyway. ;D

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Quote:
Original post by jikbar
Another thing, dying shouldn't be taken lightly. It should be very hard to come back from the dead. Since killing another person means being hunted down and killed by the police, not many players will kill for fun.



i totally agree. If you think you might die on a quest find a wizard with the skills to raise you and bring him along. If you dont get raised you start the game from scratch. I would implement a "Humanity" stat so that if you did kill someone this would drop. This would effect many things, like your appearance, spell set (good -> evil), eventually you would be bannished from some towns.
However if you fought with a PC you would knock out the other PC and then you are given the choice to kill or leave. The idea being, if you die - you werent playing the game with much thought and you suck. If one person is doing very well and rises to the top way beyond the skillsof most (and is evil scum) then the PC's should flock to have him/her eliminated.

Honesty could be a another stat to deter thieves.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Riviera Kid
Quote:
Original post by jikbar
Another thing, dying shouldn't be taken lightly. It should be very hard to come back from the dead. Since killing another person means being hunted down and killed by the police, not many players will kill for fun.



i totally agree. If you think you might die on a quest find a wizard with the skills to raise you and bring him along. If you dont get raised you start the game from scratch. I would implement a "Humanity" stat so that if you did kill someone this would drop. This would effect many things, like your appearance, spell set (good -> evil), eventually you would be bannished from some towns.
However if you fought with a PC you would knock out the other PC and then you are given the choice to kill or leave. The idea being, if you die - you werent playing the game with much thought and you suck. If one person is doing very well and rises to the top way beyond the skillsof most (and is evil scum) then the PC's should flock to have him/her eliminated.

Honesty could be a another stat to deter thieves.




Its a matter of the designers closing off loopholes and providing enough repecussions for players actions. Ive seen a MMORPG (UO) ruined for tens of thousands of new players because the company was too lazy or too greedy to pay programmers to fix their game and provide balance/counter-measures to abusive players. (Ive calculated that similar issues cost them 50,000 players x 6 years x 12 months x $10 -- do the math -- you could have bought the programmer time needed with only a small part of that).

A system needs to be able to come down like a ton of bricks on players who
intentionally causes grief for another player (making the penalties severe enough to nullify those players ability to cause further disturbances). At the same time such a system needs to prevent the griefers from employing it to their own ends.

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I don't have enough information here to give a good answer.

I get the feeling your forcing players to do what you want them to do, maybe I'm wrong. If this is the case players will bash the system even if most like it, because the ones who dont like dont have a choice.

Maybe I'm way off, please give more information.
How do players get jobs?
When do they do jobs?
How do they do the jobs?
Is it out of the way from normal activities?
What if someone does not have a job?
Can someone not have a job?

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Hello.

You could get a decent amount from just income tax, as well as charging for conversion between real money/game money. (for eg. a 1% income tax, and you sell game money hiegher then what its actually worth).

Just remember to keep the amount of money fixed. (to stop hyperinflation which happens if you start printing money).

Increase it from time to time, but make sure that your game money is pretty heighly valued. (not 1C == 1000$ value. KInda like 10$ = 7.50$ game money).

Simply make it profitable to do some jobs.

If there is one farmer, then he can sell his goods REALLY expensively.
Giving him heaps of $$.

So, now you have lots of farmers.

They compete, until they don't get enough money to make it worthwile.
Some get out, the price goes up, some other people take there place, the cycle continues.

Economics is fun!

Siimply make jobs paid, by bidding.
You get what you bid for, but if someone outbids you (for eg, buy working for less money/hour then you), then they get your job. (not actually boot someone out.)

you end up with normal wages, ect. From that. (given enough people and time)

From,
Nice coder

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Riviera Kid
Quote:
Original post by jikbar
Another thing, dying shouldn't be taken lightly. It should be very hard to come back from the dead. Since killing another person means being hunted down and killed by the police, not many players will kill for fun.



i totally agree. If you think you might die on a quest find a wizard with the skills to raise you and bring him along. If you dont get raised you start the game from scratch. I would implement a "Humanity" stat so that if you did kill someone this would drop. This would effect many things, like your appearance, spell set (good -> evil), eventually you would be bannished from some towns.
However if you fought with a PC you would knock out the other PC and then you are given the choice to kill or leave. The idea being, if you die - you werent playing the game with much thought and you suck. If one person is doing very well and rises to the top way beyond the skillsof most (and is evil scum) then the PC's should flock to have him/her eliminated.

Honesty could be a another stat to deter thieves.




Its a matter of the designers closing off loopholes and providing enough repecussions for players actions. Ive seen a MMORPG (UO) ruined for tens of thousands of new players because the company was too lazy or too greedy to pay programmers to fix their game and provide balance/counter-measures to abusive players. (Ive calculated that similar issues cost them 50,000 players x 6 years x 12 months x $10 -- do the math -- you could have bought the programmer time needed with only a small part of that).

A system needs to be able to come down like a ton of bricks on players who
intentionally causes grief for another player (making the penalties severe enough to nullify those players ability to cause further disturbances). At the same time such a system needs to prevent the griefers from employing it to their own ends.


How about an exponential banish button?

Where you can only use it once. (and you can unuse it, which reverses it).

First person to use it:
Stats - 2^1

Second person to use it
Stats - 2^2

Ect.

It gets big, rather quickly, but you need a group of a few people to get into some serious strife. (5 = 2^5 = 32 damage. 10 = 1024, but 40 = 1099511627776 damage ).

Make it easy to use, and it'll be rather nice. (and its a punishment thats hard to abuse. You need lots of accounts to actually do some damage to someone).

From,
Nice coder

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Either that or you join the w3NUK3j00 guild, with 32 members. Anyone crosses your path (or the path of any of your guild members) and you say 'hey everyone nuke *username*' over guild chat. Wabam... object, meet irresistable force. You could take down governments that way! :)

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Also, remember:

Get more money then what you need.

Pay out the amount that you need. (basically deleate a set amount of money from the game, and use the actual $$ that the game money represents for real money)

For all the rest. (try not too get rid of too much. This will make people resent taxes. Portray it in a good light. For eg: By useing tax money to give monsters stuff).

Give it into the actual game.
Use some of it for your e-government. (to pay police, ect.)

Use the rest for putting on-guard. (for eg. giving a really big item to a dragon to guard. Placing a smallish item in a sealed cave, give healing potions to npc's. And monsters).

Try to keep the system money from inflating or deflating.
If you end up with hyperinflation, then the currently will be worth nearly nothing. (bad.)
and you need heaps of it to buy bread.
If it deflates, then your economy collapses, and people starve.

Try to siphon some of the money away, in taxes, ect. So that extra money made by farming is made up by the extra money taken by taxes.

The amount of money you have should grow slowly. Its a hard balance, but it'll help you heaps later.

From,
Nice coder

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Quote:
Original post by fractoid
Either that or you join the w3NUK3j00 guild, with 32 members. Anyone crosses your path (or the path of any of your guild members) and you say 'hey everyone nuke *username*' over guild chat. Wabam... object, meet irresistable force. You could take down governments that way! :)


Then a few hundred police nukes the guild. [lol]!

Karmic realignment.

From,
Nice coder

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by James Dee Finical
I don't have enough information here to give a good answer.

I get the feeling your forcing players to do what you want them to do, maybe I'm wrong. If this is the case players will bash the system even if most like it, because the ones who dont like dont have a choice.

Maybe I'm way off, please give more information.
How do players get jobs?
When do they do jobs?
How do they do the jobs?
Is it out of the way from normal activities?
What if someone does not have a job?
Can someone not have a job?


Players get jobs by going to the employment office and selecting a job that they think is worth while.
There would be no set times to do your job as this would be a pain. However you would have to work a set minimum if you worked for someone (mostly likely an NPC or government). If you want to be a merchant you would purchase a stall at the market and it would be up to you to keep it stocked (an npc would be your shop keeper).
You do not have to have a job.
As a recall if you dont have a job you dont get paid, what kind of oppressed country do you live in?
Your job would only be a small part of the game.
Different jobs would require different tasks.

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Players get jobs by going to the employment office and selecting a job that they think is worth while.
There would be no set times to do your job as this would be a pain. However you would have to work a set minimum if you worked for someone (mostly likely an NPC or government). If you want to be a merchant you would purchase a stall at the market and it would be up to you to keep it stocked (an npc would be your shop keeper).
You do not have to have a job.
As a recall if you dont have a job you dont get paid, what kind of oppressed country do you live in?
Your job would only be a small part of the game.
Different jobs would require different tasks.


Are jobs the main aspect of this game?
Are there other ways to get money other then from a job? (I know it sounds silly, but some players may not like the job system)
Is there any reward or disadvantage to being better or worse at your job?

You could look into rewarding those who do the job less often with a bonus, or do it in reverse and give those who do the job longer less reward.

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the job system would not be the main part of the game.
It just seams a bit odd to me having thousands of players charging about on quests. A job system gives the world structure imo. However you could just go on quests and gather gold and sell items just like in other mmorpg's. Having a job would benefit you and your town, (its not like 9 to 5, just 30 minuites per week or so).

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