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Hi, After some months of work, we finally finished this weapons pack. 53 weapons for 50$Less than 1$ per weapon. We thought this kind of pack was missing in the art pack horizon. Content: 53 textured weapons (jpg + grid/wire to customise) at 512*512 (better more than less) 250 polys average. Following extentions: - dts with LOD - max5 - max7 (torque setup done) - 3ds - dxf - obj (for Maya and Milkshape users) Can be perfect for an RPG or simply to decorate a map (even in modern times) or whatever you need them for :) We really worked hard to provide a quality product at such low price and simply expect you´ll like it :) More info and screenshot of the whole pack (not all weapons on this screen) on our website: www.tridinaut.com (We also did a free tree pack for RTS. Coming soon...) Reply mail may take 24-48 hours.

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Nice work. Why so cheap?

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Quote:
 Original post by HaseNice work. Why so cheap?

Because of the license maybe, you can't distribute them in the game.

"You acquire the copyright to any derivative works created using MWP, provided the none of the original materials can be extracted from the derivative work by any means."

If the game needs to extract the files that means there is a way to extract them, and that is a violation.

Too bad, it looked good :(

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Omg, not at all. Why making a pack if you can't use it in your game.

Of course you can use it in your game, we simply ask you to not redistribute it and protect it like you protect your own files.

Anymore you can make as many projects as you want with it.

And why so cheap, simply because we wanted to make a good value. We thought an affordable quality pack was missing for developpers.

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You might want to think about programming a datafile archiver and extracter if you want newbie developers to be interested in buying. Not very many starting developers are going to care about their files, nore build a datafile program. Some professional games even leave their files exposed.

Just a thought. The weapons look really nice, BTW [smile]

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Damnit, that was me above. Only the one right above this post, though [smile]

Quote:
 "You acquire the copyright to any derivative works created using MWP, provided the none of the original materials can be extracted from the derivative work by any means."

Now that I see the exact wording, this is simply not going to cut it. Anyone can write an extraction program for a game's datafile. So it's always going to be possible to extract the models. I think you're out of luck.

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I haven't read it, but it seems from the comments you're getting that you might want to re-word your license. As far as your content goes, it's excellent! When I get the time to really work on one of my better projects, I'd be interested in contacting you guys for some contract work. You do anything futuristic? :) Anyway, great job!!!

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..

[Edited by - Saruman on April 27, 2005 4:13:11 PM]

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Note to anyone reading: The OP is working on fixing/improving the issues I raised - don't leave the thread due to my points in this post.

My original post here:

I'd definately be interested in that, the package looks to be of excellent quality at a very nice price, but your licence terms are a little harsh.

Specifically:
Quote:
 from Tridinaut MWP LicenceIf Tridinaut can show that any of the original material can be extracted from you're derivative work, Tridinaut can demand both the original and derivative work, and all copies to be deleted.

While I'd certainly be putting the assets in a protected resource file (actually, the protection would onyl be to comply with your licence, otherwise I'd just use a non-encrypted resource format), there's absolutely no possible way I (or anyone else for that matter) can give an absolute guarantee that our resource files can't be opened by a third party. If people want to get in there bad enough, they will violate any protections that are in place.

Also, on the subject of your licence, there's a typo you might want to fix:
Quote:
 Tridinaut may also revoke this license if the you have violated it.

Very nice work though, your quality is very good. I might contact you about some contract work (or even sometime in the future be interested in this pack) if a more reasonable licence is negotiable?

//EDIT: Added note to the top, and shrunk the original post content.

[Edited by - Kazgoroth on April 26, 2005 6:39:42 AM]

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Quote:
 Original post by KazgorothAlso, on the subject of your licence, there's a typo you might want to fix:

Since someone has mentioned one, I'll post a corrected version of a few fixes Word shows [wink] (zomg!!11! I just added a semi-colon at the end of this line, too much coding [lol])

Quote:
 Tridinaut retains all copyrights to the Medieval Weapons Pack (from here reffered referred as MWP). You have the right to use the content in MWP in your own game productions but you may not not redistribute it in whole or in part. You may not store it any place on a network or on the Internet where it may potentially be referenced by a third party. Tridinaut retains the right to resell this work at any price to anyone else, or stop selling it at any time. You acquire the copyright to any derivative works created using MWP, provided the that none of the original materials can be extracted from the derivative work by any means. If Tridinaut can show that any of the original material can be extracted from you're derivative work, Tridinaut can demand both the original and derivative work, and all copies to be deleted. Tridinaut may also revoke this license if the you have violated it. Please, protect our work like you would protect yours. :)

Oh I still think those models are great [smile] Keep up the good work! We want to see more, I'm sure the licensing stuff can be taken care of.

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It's me who put that copyright thing together :)

I wonder how would you guys protect your self agains someone buying the pack, pretending he made a game by putting few lines of code and realeasing it to the public for free. Someone who is not interested in making a game at all but more in hurting us could do this and we woudn't be able to say anything against that since we didn't include it in our copyright.

I understand your feellings but I hope you understand my point.

How would you protect your models if you made any, against the mentioned case? Tell me that and we'll rewrite the copyright to be more buyer friendly :)

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not bad at all, but your license gives the impression that you're setting a legal trap. the artwork etc is ALWAYS extractable from anything it's used in.

you posted while i wrote this. you can sue anyone that agrees to your license and releases a game using your product. you need to change it.
[/edit]
[edit2]
[edit3!!]
nothing to see here
[/edit3!!]
[/edit2]
[edit4...]
i posted the "it's a trap" pic. i removed it due to the OP's request as he is looking to rewrite the license agreement and may need help.
[/edit4]
[wtf]
i edit too much sometimes
[/wtf]

[Edited by - gumpy macdrunken on April 26, 2005 3:38:27 AM]

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Quote:
 Original post by tridinautHow would you protect your models if you made any, against the mentioned case? Tell me that and we'll rewrite the copyright to be more buyer friendly :)

The way I think it should be is more along the lines of anythign else, faith in the buyer:

Quote:
 Tridinaut retains all copyrights to the Medieval Weapons Pack (from here referred as MWP). You have the right to use the content in MWP in your own game productions but you may not not redistribute it in whole or in part aside from your game production. You may not store it any place on a network or on the Internet where it may potentially be referenced by a third party or used by those not involved in your project. Tridinaut retains the right to resell this work at any price to anyone else, or stop selling it at any time.***If Tridinaut can show that any of the original material can be extracted from you're derivative work, Tridinaut can demand both the original and derivative work, and all copies to be deleted.Tridinaut may also revoke this license if you have violated it.Please, protect our work like you would protect yours. :)

Now on to that *** section. Here is what you have wrong:

Quote:
 You acquire the copyright to any derivative works created using MWP, provided the that none of the original materials can be extracted from the derivative work by any means.

The problem is that you are saying they get the c.r to any derviations from using WMP, BUT in that sense, that's only possible and plausible if they edit your models and use those! You are applying it to the entire project and game, which that is way out of line and context. Yes, while the art helps a game, the game is not dervived from the artwork, it simply uses the artwork.

Quote:
 *** You acquire the copyright to any derivative works created using MWP, provided the that none of the original works of MWP can be extracted from the derivative work by any means.

So now, that's saying if they make a model based on your model, they cannot distribute the textures that you used to make the model. That or the original files along with their derivations.

Just my take on this, said with a 'suggesting tone' [wink], not trying to sound mean or anything - thinking outloud more like [lol]. What do you think?

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Quote:
 Original post by tridinautI understand your feellings but I hope you understand my point. How would you protect your models if you made any, against the mentioned case? Tell me that and we'll rewrite the copyright to be more buyer friendly :)

Sure, we understand, but looking at it from a programmers point of view, why would we want to use your artwork when you've got a clause in your legal agreement that you can order the destruction of all our work if someone happens to reverse engineer our file-format.

I think you've got the right kind of idea, but have just worded it a bit poorly. You want to get people to agree to attempt to protect the art, by putting it in an encrypted resource file of some kind if it's going to be distributed. People simply can't give you an absolute guarantee that whatever protection they implement will keep the art secure - it's completely impossible. With your current licence agreement, it sounds like even if we spent 6 months coding the most secure method we could come up with, you'd destroy our product if someone reverse engineered it.

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I think I understand your points and I'll have to rethink some parts of it.

I'd like some suggestions, what would you do to protect your self?

We are not interested in setting a legal traps but in selling this content pack.

Thanks for pointing out this for us, it's the first product we made and the first copyright that I've ever written. I can agree that it's not worded perfectly.

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Quote:
 Original post by tridinautI'd like some suggestions, what would you do to protect your self?

It's not an easy topic... Not sure that will of any use, but you are not the only one in a position like that [wink] I'd like to hear advice from other people as well. [smile]

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btw drew is it possible you remove that trap pic? We are not trying to set up a trap, I'm interested in rewritting the copyright to be more friendly.

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Quote:
 Original post by tridinautbtw drew is it possible you remove that trap pic? We are not trying to set up a trap, I'm interested in rewritting the copyright to be more friendly.

I'm not gumpy macdrunken buddy [smile] Different user...

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ohh soo sorry :)

to repeat the request this time to right user :)

btw gumpy macdrunken is it possible you remove that trap pic? We are not trying to set up a trap, I'm interested in rewritting the copyright to be more friendly.

Thanks for the advices guys, I'll try to come up with better worded copyright and less buyer repulsive. If any of you is good in this area and has some suggestions please post them here...

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>You do anything futuristic? :) Anyway, great job!!!

We could do anything one requests, futuristic, prehistoric, current, etc :)

Glad you like the work we put into this...

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Also you should consider that if someone with dubious intent acquires your pack, it'll be spread around on p2p faster than you can say cheese. Thus ultimately any technical protection is rather futile.
Perhaps you should specify exactly the way your work may be used by licensees. Ie. they may use your work as such or in modified form contained in their work. But they may only distribute their work with a more restricted license, that prohibits using your work by third parties that haven't obtained a license from you. Using obviously doesn't include viewing (as people do when playing a game with your artwork). Actually I believe this might be the case even without any mentioning it in the license, since you do hold the copyright to your work, but it always helps to be specific.

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Quote:
 Original post by KazgorothI'd definately be interested in that, the package looks to be of excellent quality at a very nice price, but your licence terms are a little harsh.

We'll try to rework the license to suit the buyer better. Give us some time :)

Quote:
 Very nice work though, your quality is very good. I might contact you about some contract work (or even sometime in the future be interested in this pack) if a more reasonable licence is negotiable?

You are welcome to contant us for contract work when you have need for it :) As said we'll try to rework the license: )

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Quote:
 Original post by tridinautohh soo sorry :)to repeat the request this time to right user :)btw gumpy macdrunken is it possible you remove that trap pic? We are not trying to set up a trap, I'm interested in rewritting the copyright to be more friendly.Thanks for the advices guys, I'll try to come up with better worded copyright and less buyer repulsive. If any of you is good in this area and has some suggestions please post them here...

done. take your time and be careful how you rewrite that.

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You may want to contact a lawyer to have them draw up a license agreement that gives you what you want, while still giving people the freedom to use the models without fear of breaching the agreement. They (the lawyers) can make it all nice and legalese for you, so you won't have to worry about some loophole showing up.

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If I may, I would like to recommend that you simply insist that the models and textures be placed into a non-standard datafile format. Or a standard format with password type protection. Instead of "any means possible", use the wording "any reasonable means".

Most people are not out to get you. They may be freaks that think everything should be free, but I seriously doubt they are trying to bring your company down. Well, unless you're MS.