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Athos

To make an RPG that you actually roleplay in

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Its my dream my fantasy to make an RPG game were you actually benefit from playing choosen role. Thats partly why i have major intrest in AI too. The problem: How do you make an game were you reward and evolv the player charcters by rolplaying. How do you keep them intrested and make them want more? i have 2 ideas to this problem but i manly want to start discussion on how you could make a system that would work. My idea 1: Have a very advanced NPC / AI system were the npc of the world rewards the player for his curage / bravory. My idea 2: Have GMs monotoring the world and reward players for what thay do(in an online mmo senario ) Anyone else have better ideas and willing to discuss? Is the old muds the only way you can actually get people to roleplay? Greetings Athos

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It'd be interesting to pose challenges to players, in the sense that their stats, alingment and such affect other gameplay elements than effectiveness in battle and "teams". For example, NPC interaction:

NPC: I'd like to sell you this amulet.

PLAYER: (choose a response)
A: I'll give you 200 gold for it.
B. I'll give you 20 gold for it.
C. Why don't I just kill you and take it?


If their character is an ugly, bloodthirsty troll warrior, it'd kind of cause the NPC to be "wary" if he chose the polite response of A, and the exchange would result in less of a benefit than if the person answered in character.

This system could be done by adding certain properties to available replies, and having them weighted against the player's character type.

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Quote:
Original post by I Like Bread
NPC: I'd like to sell you this amulet.

PLAYER: (choose a response)
A: I'll give you 200 gold for it.
B. I'll give you 20 gold for it.
C. Why don't I just kill you and take it?




They took this same sort of approach in Knights of the Old Republic. In that system, you were "rewarded" with "Dark Side" and "Light Side" points (esentially, a small alignment adjustment) depending on your decisions...besides simple diolouge and things like giving poor people money, your actions also influenced your alignment...For example, if you entered into an (illegal) deathmatch duel without first debating the morality of doing so, you'd gain Dark Side points, and releasing prisoners would gain you Light Side points. These points rewarded the player by making it easier to use force powers of his/her chosen alignment--for example, the "Cure" power (A Light Side power) cost, oh, let's say 10 force points to a completely neuteral character. If you were 50% Light Side, the cost would be reduced to 8 points, while if you were 100% Light Side, it would cost as low as 5 points. On the same token, "Death Field" (an obviously Dark SIde power) would cost a 100% Light Side user up to twice its original cost.

in any case, my idea would to be to give the character several ways to do something , and have him choose, then alter his abilities accordingly. For example, let's say the PC has to get into a locked room. He could either pick the lock, hack and slash orcs until he finds the key, or use a magic scroll to unlock the door. If he picked the lock, the PC would gain grater skill in lockpicking, while the hack-'n-slash method would give him grater strength, and the use of the scroll would increase MP and intelligence.

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just wondering are there any mmo games that use GMs to direct the most part of game play, and if so how well do they work

as for AI based system iv playd a few game with similar systems but iv never seen it implimented in a way i liked, it always just ends up as another numberic score i have to keep track of and not any where near what i would call role playing

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Guest Anonymous Poster
To my mind, "actual roleplaying" is improvisation -- taking on the role of a character and interacting with other people who are doing the same. I've never seen single-player RPGs as being comparable to tabletop/pen-and-paper roleplaying, in any way. I want to invent my character's dialog, not pick it from a list of responses -- and I want to talk to someone who will understand it, not AI that might be able to parse it and come up with a relevant response.

Theoretically, you could have real roleplaying in an online game. There are several problems to overcome, though.

First, you need to ensure that your players want to roleplay. The average game-player probably doesn't. If your game is still fun for people who don't roleplay, then non-roleplayers will outnumber roleplayers. No more roleplaying. And even the potential roleplayers are likely to be distracted by the non-roleplaying gameplay -- especially if that's what everyone else is doing. This is why roleplaying is more common on MUDs than on modern MMORPGs, and even more common on the statless MU*s that probably don't even qualify as games. If there's nothing else to do, people might actually roleplay -- the people who stick around, at least.

Even there, though, I've found that interesting roleplaying was rare -- or perhaps just hard to find. So I think that a good online roleplaying environment would need to do several things, above and beyond reducing the distractions offered by conventional MMORPGs.

First, it needs to provide players -- not all players, mind you, but a decent percentage of them -- with the power to do interesting things within the game world. This power would be granted temporarily, for the purpose of running "plots." They would basically be GMs, creating puzzles for the players to solve and villains for them to defeat. I think this is something that a lot of people would be interested in doing, and the amount of effort required scales nicely -- you could run a little plot that might involve three or four players, or come up with something epic. And from the player's perspective, this should be a lot more interesting than pre-scripted "quests." Of course, there's no guarantee that there's anything going on at any given moment -- but if they're bored, they can always work on a plot they'd like to run themselves.

The other things you need all relate to this idea. A system of submitting plots and requesting specific powers for them, so that the admin can maintain some degree of control over the game world. A system of monitoring plot-runners, including a way for players to lodge a complaint if they see an abuse of power. Effective ways for plot-runners and players to communicate OOCly, both pre-plot and during actual play. Some way for plot-runners to indicate which players are involved, so that those players can be prompted to rate the plot after its conclusion. Et cetera.

One thing you don't need: "Player rewards" equivalent to (MMO)RPG levelling / equipment upgrades / whatever. The potential for abuse and/or perceived abuse by plot-runners outweighs the benefits. Let the puzzle-solving and villain-smiting and whatever-else-the-plot-runners-think-up be its own reward.

The average player wouldn't like it. But I think the players who did would love it.

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Err, for the record, I'm the poster above... with the outlandish notions about "actual roleplaying" and the excessive use of m-dashes. :P

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Id have to agree with that,
I mean what’s the point in role-playing if the only things that have any effect on the world and plot are hitting things with swords and a few really obvious pre-scripted options like “join bad guy” vs “fight bad guy”

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
And even the potential roleplayers are likely to be distracted by the non-roleplaying gameplay -- especially if that's what everyone else is doing. This is why roleplaying is more common on MUDs than on modern MMORPGs


I think there's another important difference between the two as well. Because the MUD is text based, it inherrently allows the player to describe thier actions as they see fit, which is a capability largely lacking from graphic CRPG (and of course MMORPG) games. For example, consider the following situation:

It is a dark and stormy night, and the adventurers were huddled around the table in front of the fireplace, drinking thier ale and discussing what they would do the next day...

Now, in a MUD, the following could happen:

when suddenly, the door bursts open, and a man flippantly swaggers into the room, casting his stare at all those within.

In the MMORPG (or CRPG) on the other hand, the best you can normally handle displaying would be:

when the door opens, and a man walks into the room.

You generally don't really know what a character is looking at in a CRPG, and doors only have a single opening animation - there's no difference in cautiously opening it to peak through and bursting through it as quickly as possible. You certainly can't display the fact that the character is 'swaggering' - there's only a walk or a run animation, plus potentially some sort of combat movement animation.

In a CRPG, you can't lean up against a wall while casually discussing something in the street, you can't lean forward across the table to cautiously offer a piece of advice - you can't even draw back the string of your bow to threaten someone without actually firing. Having such options available to players would probably help, at least to a certain extent, as those willing to role play would at least be able to actually play the role reasonably.

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I'm not much in favor of Hardcore roleplaying, for various reasons. I think the best forms of experiences are those which are totally random and a result of coincidental circumstances, with characters/places/things merely being a pretext for the experience itself. These kind of experiences are more related to the Low Level Story Aspect of gameplay, most apparent in FPS or action oriented gameplay. Planetside is a good example of an environment thats promotes random and enjoyable situations/experiences, the players empire define's his "race" and any other personal history is gleamed from the players own real experiences ingame.

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Quote:
Original post by Kaze
just wondering are there any mmo games that use GMs to direct the most part of game play, and if so how well do they work


I think Neverwinter Nights is ideal; and it's the only online game that I ever actually roleplay on. It's not really an MMO; you can set up your own server and have a max of around 64 or so people on it, and a few DMs. But having a bunch of separate servers with their own worlds and own people running them makes it easier for the GMs to have a stronger grasp of what's going on with each character and the plot in general. More importantly, the people who set up the server can be much more selective with who is allowed to play, ie, pk-ing, leet-speaking, snotty 12 year olds get permabanned instantly, or not even accepted because of an application process. You'll never see that in a fully commercial MMORPG because snotty l33t kiddies are the lifeblood of those companies, and are the ones who will usually spend the most of their (parents') money on monthly fees.

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