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No interest in my game?

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My posting in HELP WANTED is not getting any replies, booo hoooo. Can someone clue me in and tell me what I am doing wrong, perhaps? Is the problem that I am working in C# instead of C++ .NET? Is it the fact that it is a 2D game in GDI+ versus the next DOOM or QUAKE? I would think that a lot of beginning game developers would jump at the chance to help out on a project like this. I could use some advice. Sorry if I have posted in the wrong place...I am glad to move this post to some other forum.

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You didn't really say what your game is about or your dream of the game or any structures or anything, all you gave really was the title not much about it to make people think yeah this is a game which sounds fun.
Also you've done it as a freeware, 2d and in C# which kind of confuses it all to what kind of people would apply i.e. experienced people in the industry or students like me since:
a lot of students don't mind free and 2d projects since it gets are name know i.e. like saying oh do you know of this program or played this game it helps to pad out the CV so to speak. though it's in C# a lot of students start on C or C++ first since their isn’t many people as far as i know which say that it is going to take over as the main new programming language yet so a lot of degrees teach is a the main language plus theirs a lot more tutorial books out their on it. Plus by the time students have learn C/C++ and moved on to C# a lot of people have friends or their own game idea they want to work on so their reluctant to start on a game they know hardly anything about.

a lot of people who are experienced in the industry would be reluctant to join it again since theirs not much on the game idea or a long standing project for cash or sale after, plus a lot of people like to do 3d instead of 3d nowadays since a lot of professional games use it since it looks cool.. Plus it's more of a challenge due to thing like gravity, shadows etc.

hope this helps since it would be great to hear the tutorial at the end :)

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Original post by violetann
You didn't really say what your game is about or your dream of the game


What the game is about (rules, etc.) are on the web page itself. Did you mean something different?

What do you mean by my "dream" of the game?

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or any structures or anything,


what do you mean by structures?

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all you gave really was the title not much about it to make people think yeah this is a game which sounds fun.


What do you think would make it sound more fun?


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Also you've done it as a freeware, 2d and in C# which kind of confuses it all to what kind of people would apply i.e. experienced people in the industry or students like me since:
a lot of students don't mind free and 2d projects since it gets are name know i.e. like saying oh do you know of this program or played this game it helps to pad out the CV so to speak. though it's in C# a lot of students start on C or C++ first since their isn’t many people as far as i know which say that it is going to take over as the main new programming language yet so a lot of degrees teach is a the main language plus theirs a lot more tutorial books out their on it. Plus by the time students have learn C/C++ and moved on to C# a lot of people have friends or their own game idea they want to work on so their reluctant to start on a game they know hardly anything about.


So you are saying that "beginning" game developers tend to know C or C++ rather than C#?

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a lot of people who are experienced in the industry would be reluctant to join it again since theirs not much on the game idea or a long standing project for cash or sale after, plus a lot of people like to do 3d instead of 3d nowadays since a lot of professional games use it since it looks cool.. Plus it's more of a challenge due to thing like gravity, shadows etc.

hope this helps since it would be great to hear the tutorial at the end :)



I think it will be lots of fun when finished...and more importantly...a great teaching tool.

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I think the main first few things of making people see it as more fun is giving in about 4-5 sentences to give someone an idea of the game or just saying it’s going to be a learning or teaching project would be another idea if your willing to take on people who don’t know much about it.
Dream… the dream of the game as in a short log of what the game is going to be about their wasn’t much on the post, people are a bit lazy like if you were doing a falling blocks game something like.. “a addictive falling blocks game… where the user strives to stop the blocks from filling the screen and gaining points to advance” something short to get the creative juices flowing… like if you pick up a packet of crisps it says the flavour of them and what they are and something to should what it is so you know what it is in the packet. About 3-4 sentences.
The structure I meant like what happens something to give an idea of how it works i.e do you walk around as the person and move them or is it turn based and you don’t see the little person or thing move around or what etc.. Something to give an idea in sort what the game is like 1-2 sentences something which can be read quickly since people are lazy sometimes.
Yeah I’m learning C++ first because my degree course is a plus theirs more about it already and more examples so it’s a lot easier to find information about it.
I hope you don't take this as me being horrible just though might give you a idea why their wasn't many replies.
p.s if I don't reply it's because it’s 1am where I am so I’m off to be now anyway.

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There are several things I'd say are "wrong" with the post. Hopefully these will help you correct it.

Let's start with these lines:
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Talent needed: C# developer, Artist, Sound
My role is is the game designer, and webmaster. I do some programming as time allows.
Sounds like you're looking for somebody to implement your ideas, while you just tell them what to do and keep a web site up. Not an attractive idea.

Next, your choice of languages:
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C# (.NET) (C++, C, or Java would probably be comparable languages and allow you to help out).
So what are you looking for? C#? C++? C? Java?
If you can't decide what language you're using, how are you going make BIG decisions?

How about from your web site:
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Myself and the handfull of software developers who are helping me are writing a Windows-based 2D board game in C# (.NET). We hope to be done in a few months (Jan or Feb of 2005).
That scares me for a lot of reasons. If you can't figure them out for yourself, perhaps you should have one of your "handfull of software developers" look at it and explain it to you.

The rules you list on your game look somewhat complete, if you are trying to explain it from a players point of view. They're not that great from a developer's view.

Next, looking at your actual source code that you have on your site....

First, congratulations on actually having something. That's a start.

Now some coding problems: Where are the comments? Where are developer docs, or at least comments that can be extracted in XML and formated with a tool like NDoc? Are we expected to just intuit from your code all the logic? When more than one person is involved, you need a solid set of blueprints to build from. Where are yours?

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This is an excellent opportunity for any C# developer to work on a game where the design is already done and all that is needed is coding.
Having reviewed the code and your site, I have no idea what your vision is, and only a slight idea at your design. It does not appear at all that "the design is already done", although you might have a binder that contains all those documents which you didn't post.

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I would think that a lot of beginning game developers would jump at the chance to help out on a project like this.
Not really, since most of them have already started their own similar program, or tetris, or a side-scroller, or whatever.

Here are a few ideas for improvement. Ask for a programmer with a specific set of skills to work on specific aspects of the game. Provide specific documentation about what is expected in the end, and what you presently have. Rather than the documentation you have on the site (which is almost non-existant), provide very detailed descriptions so that any programming grunt will know exactly what is expected, exactly what the acceptance criteria are in your mind, and exactly where you are headed with the game.

Hope that helps.

frob.

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frob:

Your suggestions are JUST what I needed.

I honestly had no idea that I was doing such a poor job communicating what was wanted or how the game works (from a developer's point of view, not an end-user's).

I think before I do any more complaining about nobody helping me...I will go and apply your suggestions to my current source code...and provide better documentation!!!

This really does help me...thank you!

Tom

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frob:

If I change things around to say that I am looking for a Mentor....does that make helping me even LESS attractive?


I really am looking for a Mentor. Someone who knows more than me who can help me learn C#.

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If I change things around to say that I am looking for a Mentor....does that make helping me even LESS attractive?
I really am looking for a Mentor. Someone who knows more than me who can help me learn C#.

No, it doesn't make the project less attractive.

Assuming you have already shown a halfway decent attempt at doing a good job by improving comments, creating better documentation on your goals, etc., and get rid of the comments like "All the design and ideas are done, I just need grunt workers", and instead say "I'm working on a game and want experienced programmers who can help with reviewing my work and teaching me ways to improve", you'll probably get a lot better response.

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Original post by frob
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If I change things around to say that I am looking for a Mentor....does that make helping me even LESS attractive?
I really am looking for a Mentor. Someone who knows more than me who can help me learn C#.

No, it doesn't make the project less attractive.

Assuming you have already shown a halfway decent attempt at doing a good job by improving comments, creating better documentation on your goals, etc., and get rid of the comments like "All the design and ideas are done, I just need grunt workers", and instead say "I'm working on a game and want experienced programmers who can help with reviewing my work and teaching me ways to improve", you'll probably get a lot better response.



frob:



Okay - I have made some changes both to my website as well as my Help Wanted posting here on GameDev to more accurately reflect what I am looking for.



1) Create more documentation for Developers.

2) Comment my code so those who are helping can have a better idea what methods are doing instead of having to figure them out.

3) Expectations for future development.


NOTE: These are not quick fixes...this will take me some time.


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I'm working on a game and I need experienced C# developers who can help with reviewing my work and teaching me ways to improve.


I dunno, a lot of us do this all day with other peoples code... and it takes a while to get used to other people styles. It kind of hints at possible degeneration of doing a lot of work for not much reward. Also it's very clear that this is your baby and well... developers tend to like lots of input in what they are doing.

Plus... well... many younger developers are lone-gunman and prefer to work alone - heck a lot of older ones too. You gotta get past that too. That and it's hard to work with someone you've never met over distance.

So I doubt it's anything personal and if you found someone as enthuastic as you are about your concept whom may not even as experienced as you it would be a start... because working with anyone is always a useful exercise for bouncing ideas off each other etc.

For the short-term you may be better off just searching around for answers and posting specific questions to forums like this so developers can just dip in and out of your project without commitment. Who knows, you may hook someone that way.

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I also noticed that you're using a bitmap image for the logo on your website. Although this is extremely offtopic, I thought this might help you out:

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Is this any better?

Much.

Even so, I think paulecoyote got it right. Without you doing a lot more work on it, "It kind of hints at possible degeneration of doing a lot of work for not much reward." As I mentioned earlier, most people would probably work on their own pet games, and your best bet of finding somebody will be by asking specific questions on the board.

frob

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Original post by frob
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Is this any better?

Much.

Even so, I think paulecoyote got it right. Without you doing a lot more work on it, "It kind of hints at possible degeneration of doing a lot of work for not much reward." As I mentioned earlier, most people would probably work on their own pet games, and your best bet of finding somebody will be by asking specific questions on the board.

frob


I spent some more time thinking about this...and I tend to agree with you...I just don't think people are that interested in working on other people's games...especially not one like mine where most of it is still in my head and not documented well enough.

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Original post by invisal
i really want to work with you Tom Knowlton but i never code C# and i am not good at programming.



Well...until we can find someone better in C# than BOTH of us....we can still learn as we go and learn from each other.

So, you have never written anything in C# and you say you are not that good at programming in general?

What have you written so far? What languages are you learning?

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