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What the heck with the search engine of gamedev for the forum?

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I don't think anyone not paying for GDnet+ should be bitching about features (working or not) on this site.

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Original post by jmg5
I don't think anyone not paying for GDnet+ should be bitching about features (working or not) on this site.


Perhaps you need to think about this a little more. I presume, though you did not express it, that you are basing this on the fact that GDnet+ members 'pay' and the rest of us don't. Well I am not complaining but I will stand up for myself and the others here who contribute and feel that their contribution has some value and that that value is not just philosophical.

Humor me for a moment and check out the top of this page. Those flashy things there, those are advertisements. They make money for GDNet. When I view those ads I am making money for GDNet by a) making them a more desirable place to advertise through my traffic and b) possibly clicking on an ad and buying something which will most likely bring them immediate revenue. Further: My contributions help to build a content base and maintain a hight site activity, both things that advertisers are willing to (and do) pay for.

GDNet makes money of of me and you and off of the GDNet+ members. I am OK with that because it in turn provides me with a a number of valuable services.

I will push even further and say that users (all of them) should complain about things like this and help the GD people know what to fix/improve as it is obviously in their best interest (I mean profit) to keep us all happy and using the site.

EDIT:
If you have any more interest in GDNet advertising (and how profound their numbers are), here is a place to start.

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I didn't even think about other ways of contributing to GD, thanks.
Quote:

I will push even further and say that users (all of them) should complain about things like this and help the GD people know what to fix/improve as it is obviously in their best interest (I mean profit) to keep us all happy and using the site.

This has obviously been a problem for awhile, and the staff knows about it. If a new problem comes about, they should be notified, though.

Now I realise my post wasn't very well thought out, but I just don't appreciate comments like
Quote:
I just find it very funny that a programming forum can't (well, hasn't, but saying they can't sounds 'better' as far as the joke goes) fix something that comes up in fairly basic programming classes.

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Quote:
Original post by turnpast
Quote:
Original post by jmg5
I don't think anyone not paying for GDnet+ should be bitching about features (working or not) on this site.


Perhaps you need to think about this a little more. I presume, though you did not express it, that you are basing this on the fact that GDnet+ members 'pay' and the rest of us don't. Well I am not complaining but I will stand up for myself and the others here who contribute and feel that their contribution has some value and that that value is not just philosophical.

Humor me for a moment and check out the top of this page. Those flashy things there, those are advertisements. They make money for GDNet. When I view those ads I am making money for GDNet by a) making them a more desirable place to advertise through my traffic and b) possibly clicking on an ad and buying something which will most likely bring them immediate revenue. Further: My contributions help to build a content base and maintain a hight site activity, both things that advertisers are willing to (and do) pay for.

GDNet makes money of of me and you and off of the GDNet+ members. I am OK with that because it in turn provides me with a a number of valuable services.

I will push even further and say that users (all of them) should complain about things like this and help the GD people know what to fix/improve as it is obviously in their best interest (I mean profit) to keep us all happy and using the site.

EDIT:
If you have any more interest in GDNet advertising (and how profound their numbers are), here is a place to start.



Thank you. I could'nt have said it better myself.

...Like I said before, and I will reiterate again, The search feature being disabled is what has, and will keep me from becoming a GDNet member.

I know how Web-Advertiseing works as I used to be the proud owner of a heavily Trafficked site a couple of years ago. A site like this certainly brings in a couple of grands a month if the statistics provided in the link above are still correct and, provided they're taking full advantage of the ad-space, plus; GDNet memberships ( I acknowledge the expenses a high traffic site can cost. But still, the profit is seen ).

Being able to search a forum is a VERY important feature, if not, one of the MOST important features.

No hard feelings - just an annoyance. I certainly don't disregard every contribution made or every contributor here, deffinetly =).

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Quote:
Original post by Talroth
I just find it very funny that a programming forum can't (well, hasn't, but saying they can't sounds 'better' as far as the joke goes) fix something that comes up in fairly basic programming classes.


There are 2.3 million posts, so we are beyond the realm of trivial when it comes to implementing search. The lexicon is fairly massive and some words may appear in a million posts or more. At that size we're also starting to get out of the realm of triviality when we merge word hit lists and perform the sort operations for relevancy. Even maintaining an updated index in real time (or even semi real time) becomes a hassle.

I have done a fair amount of research in this field and have even created a full search engine (million or more pages) in the past with another company of mine (that is no longer in business). At the moment SQL Server 2000's full text search is pretty bad for this size data and in particular for the way it needs to be accessed to make search decent.

I probably cared more about search than anybody and pushed for a 3rd party solution. We do have it (dtSearch Engine) but it requires the time to implement a connector to index forum content. The GD Gathering was a joint effort between Oli Wilkinson and myself.. and quite honestly, without his help we would have never gotten it finished.

As funny as it sounds, from my perspective I *still need* to work a full time job and take grad classes in the evenings to support myself.. this site doesn't support me or any of the other staff. While we deeply appreciate the support we do get the reality is that it just isn't enough yet. Every little bit helps though and for that we are thankful.

Any past mentions that the search was coming out soon by anyone other than me have been incorrect. We transitioned to a new database server only a few weeks ago along with the release of the gathering. So now it is possible to implement the search.. it is a matter of time.

On June 17th I have off for the summer from teaching and will be working more full time on the site..

---
Michael Tanczos

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One thing that confuses me is how no other forums seem to run into the problem of massive amounts of posts and running search tool. Is it just that Gdnet is so massive, the search tools that are fine for 99% of other forums on the net simply wouldn't work? What about sites like Gia Online which is the biggest forum on the net? How do their search pages work?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. It just confuses me how other sites manage to get around the problem GDnet seems to have.

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Quote:
Original post by boolean
One thing that confuses me is how no other forums seem to run into the problem of massive amounts of posts and running search tool. Is it just that Gdnet is so massive, the search tools that are fine for 99% of other forums on the net simply wouldn't work? What about sites like Gia Online which is the biggest forum on the net? How do their search pages work?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. It just confuses me how other sites manage to get around the problem GDnet seems to have.


Our software is home-brew so we have to do it ourselves. =P

---
Michael Tanczos

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Quote:
Original post by boolean
One thing that confuses me is how no other forums seem to run into the problem of massive amounts of posts and running search tool. Is it just that Gdnet is so massive, the search tools that are fine for 99% of other forums on the net simply wouldn't work? What about sites like Gia Online which is the biggest forum on the net? How do their search pages work?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. It just confuses me how other sites manage to get around the problem GDnet seems to have.


The first is that most sites don't have the same number of posts. The second is that most forum search engines (i.e. the kind you find on various php forums) cheat to a greater or lessor degree. The first cheat is that they do make a major hit on the forum performance - 30 seconds is usually the wait time between queries to prevent overloading the server, because in most cases your search is using 100% of the servers CPU for 1-2 seconds to do the search. With Gamedev's traffic that would be delaying dozens of other connections, making the entire site seem sluggish (much like most php boards). The second cheat is that there is usually no relevance ranking, meaning you get whatever random junk you get, which leads into the third cheat - only maintaining the index for recent posts, which not only creates the appearance of relevance ranking, but also heads off the need to make a solution that can really scale to a million or more posts (The search for messages on Yahoo Groups is a major offender for this type of search cheat).

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I for one never really had any problems with the old search methods. It has always bid reliable for me and I hope to see something similar to it for the next search engine. Good luck on it.

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