theres also several issues with nano-machines.
1. breathing them in
2. if they malfunction then start turning all raw materials (yourself included) into whatever they're producing.
of course 'police bots' have been suggested, and hashing could also be another type of guard against malfunctions.
Gameplay ideas for full-on nanotech society?
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So you would not use them to build buildings since it would require trillions upon trillions of nanites and even then it would take a long time to constuct a building one molecule at a time.Quote:
There's so much that's wrong with this sentence.
Firstly, what's so impossible about having trillions upon trillions of nanomachines? Before you answer, bare in mind that there are already trillions upon trillions of nanomachines making up life on Earth.
Secondly, why would trillions upon trillions of nanomachines build a building one molecule at a time? They wouldn't, they'd work in parallel. Suppose it takes a thousand nanomachines a nanosecond to move a single molecule into place, and we have a billion trillion nanomachines. They could construct the Empire State Building in 4 hours.
Thirdly, why would nanomachines make buildings out of anything when they could form themselves into a building? Supposing a suitable nanomachine could move at 5m/s, a swarm of them could fill a volume the size of the Empire State Building in about 80 seconds. If nanomachines were built with Bucky-tube support struts, such a structure could be thousands of times stronger than steel, but tens lighter.
Fourthly, these examples are based upon nanotechnology as it might appear in our short or medium term future. Wavinator's game is set in a future so far advanced that civilisation has spread across the entire galaxy. It isn't unreasonable to suppose that any minor technical problems will have been resolved.
Basicaly using nanites to build a building is impractical an inefficent. It makes far more sense to use a small number large machines to constuct a building then vast numbers of tiny machines. How do nanties turn themselves into a building? And why do that since its just a waste of a high end finished good. In order for nanites to turn themselves into building then nanites would need to be built of strong material, that can be both conduct and not conduct electricity, act as insulation, be opaque and transparent, etc.. Lets assume for arguments sake that such a material exists or to make things even easier nanites are made of carbon. Convservation of mass means that in order to build a building out of nanites you need building sized mass of pure carbon to begin with from which to build the nanites from. That assumes that nanites can be built from a single common element, if nanites had to made of anything else it becomes even more impracticle. Simple put nanites turning themselves into buildings is simply not cost effective.
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Nanites can't turn anything in to anthing else.Quote:
And why not? Why can't nanites employ the same laws of physics that other machines can?
I'm not talking about physics I'm talking about chemistry. If you have a block of lead nanites can turn it many things, but whatever they turn it into will always be lead.
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To be honest its rather hard to come up with any practical applications for nanites let alone ones that would make good game play.Quote:
Previous posters have come up with some and you've failed to explain why they wouldn't work. Making trillions of nanomachines isn't a problem because you just need to build nanomachines that build nanomachines.
Well the problem with nanites is that they are ultimate purpose built machine since they have to built with certain equipment needed for whatever job they are designed to do. You could change that equipment but that again requires specially built construction nanites and a great deal of time. If takes as little as 1 nanite 1 minute to build or modify a nanite then its going to take some time unless you have a close ratio of construction nanites to nanites to build.
Take espionage nanites could monitor the data flow of computer but they can't store enough data to be of any value, so they have to transmit that data. They arn't going to have powerful enough transmitters to send transmit that data more then a few millimeters and if they did that would be to easy to detect. So what do you do have a nanochain leadering from your computer to the target computer? If you do that then if someone can detect nanites they easily find you.
Again nanites couldn't stop bullets from hitting you unless they where able to move faster then a speeding bullet. Even then they it would depend on far away from you the intercepted the bullet.
Quote:Original post by Wavinator
Little nanites (microscopic machines) could practically be a futuristic gameworld's magic system. They could float through the air, stick to your clothes, form distributed spying networks, be used in combat, etc..
Nooo, please! :P
Anarchy Online did the whole "Hey, we have nanotech, so lets use it to copy fantasy game's magic systems".
Please, lets not turn it into "ordinary" magic. Tossing fireballs is fine in a fantasy game. In sci-fi, it requires a bit more explanation, and saying "But we have millions of tiny nanites doing it, so it's no problem" just sounds cheesy. ;)
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For instance, you could enter a room that suddenly begins misting up as waves of stealthed nanites break free from the walls and start attacking you.
How, exactly? How does something the size of a few molecules attack a person?
Sure, they could do it, but not just by bumping into you or shooting lasers at you. ;)
I suppose they could try to cover your mouth to prevent you from breathing, or just try to pile up on you (sooner or later, there'll be enough of them that they could start actually restricting your movement or maybe tie you up or something.
But I'd also imagine that something that literally arrives one molecule at a time would be easy to brush off or prevent from forming any sufficiently big groups.
Of course, if they're made of a *really* poisonous material, they might be able to kill you just by getting into your body in big enough numbers.
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How much explanation do you think the average sci-fi oriented player would need to even get into the possibilities of nanotech?
Dunno. I'd like to see some limitations. What *can't* it be used for? Where isn't it worth the bother?
Saying "nanotech can do anything and solve any problem" just seems like the easy way out, basically allowing you to steal the magic systems from fantasy games, and use it as a carte blanche to do anything you like. (It also sounds awfully naive). Then you're just making a fantasy game with lasers.
Anyway, just how much intelligence/programming can you cram into something that size? Would they really be able to, say, fly through a room, locate a target, coordinate with 200 million other nanites to begin clustering and try to attack the target? Would it be able to construct a building? Surely, but wouldn't it need to be guided through every step? You wouldn't be able to program them to create an entire building unsupervised. I doubt you'd save that much work in the end. On the other hand, it would allow you to construct thing literally an atom at a time, which would be great when accuracy is recuired. Would probably be extremely helpful in building computers, or most high-tech stuff.
I'd imagine their uses would be pretty limited, actually. Constructing small, hi-tech items with microscopic accuracy, probably. In specialized combat situations, sure (you could use them to eat through walls if you're not in a hurry, or if you need something more controllable than a big explosion), but using them for armor, or as an actual weapon to attack people with? I doubt it.
Being able to sever individual nerves, or manipulate your brain? Dream on. Physically, it should be possible for them to do, yes, but again, just how much programming do you think you can cram into them? "Scan the area, do a hell of a lot of image analysis just to find your target, then try to compute how to get to it. Now locate the head, find a way to get inside it, locate brain cell #3,314,945 and disrupt its connection to #2,924,114".
And using them as a cheap excuse for magic is just... wrong...
If you want to be able to do anything with no explanation, you're in the wrong genre. ;)
And no, changing the names of your spells (from firestorm to electromagnetic storm doesn't really improve matters.
As someone already pointed out, we know it's possible for macromolecules to do heavy construction and interact on a human scale - after all, humans are "just" a collection of cells working together, and look what we can do. A living cell is a fairly good example of a general purpose "nanomachine" - though by the time you get to things as complex as cells, the nano part is a definite misnomer - and viruses are proof that they can be reprogrammed...
10-15 years ago, people were predicting that within 25 years or so (from then) there would be "smart" construction materials - which aren't far from being basic specialist nanomachines. And the ultimate in space-saving furniture - stuff that extrudes itself from some flat form on demand... OK, not as space efficient as "coffin hotels" but gives "1-room apartment" have a whole new meaning...
If you model nano-tech more on biological systems, then you can get a wide variety of different substances from the same raw material - just two carbon atoms and some water gives you the raw materials for everything from a gaseous fuel (ethane) to alcohol (ethanol) to vinegar (ethanoic acid) - adding more carbon gives you all sorts of interesting possibilities - adding traces of other elements then gives you pretty much every living thing on earth as a possibility.
10-15 years ago, people were predicting that within 25 years or so (from then) there would be "smart" construction materials - which aren't far from being basic specialist nanomachines. And the ultimate in space-saving furniture - stuff that extrudes itself from some flat form on demand... OK, not as space efficient as "coffin hotels" but gives "1-room apartment" have a whole new meaning...
If you model nano-tech more on biological systems, then you can get a wide variety of different substances from the same raw material - just two carbon atoms and some water gives you the raw materials for everything from a gaseous fuel (ethane) to alcohol (ethanol) to vinegar (ethanoic acid) - adding more carbon gives you all sorts of interesting possibilities - adding traces of other elements then gives you pretty much every living thing on earth as a possibility.
Quote:Original post by rmsgrey
As someone already pointed out, we know it's possible for macromolecules to do heavy construction and interact on a human scale - after all, humans are "just" a collection of cells working together, and look what we can do.
Nano-people? Nanomachines that work together to create a living machine? Nano-machines that can reproduce themselves. I can imagine the 'sentient-computer' villain being remade as a nano-machine villain.
Keep in mind that you have to control all those little nanites. Someone would have to set these things in place and tell them what to do.
Using nanites to build a large structure (i.e. building). Think of the processing power needed to coordinate all those nanites. Might still be cheeper to have nanites build the component pieces at a factory (possibly portable) and still have to have people/larger robots assemble. Or construction companies would just a mainframes they tote to each and every site.
If you have 100,000 nanites every cubic foot, you still have to power them somehow. I'm guessing one of the easiest ways to avoid a nanite trap would just be to moniter for power emitions.
Lets not forget clean up of dead nanites.
- Drop several tons of nanites on an unihabitated planat with the order to break down a specific amount of rock (making soil).
- Vats of nanites used to construct items. I.e. computer parts, walls for a prefab home.
- Need a new network connection in room 345. Just send out a string of our new nano wire. No fuss, no mess.
- Could use nanites to clean up the water supply.
more "game" friendly ideas:
- Micro fiber wire bomb. Thorw this little bomb out and thousands of nanites spue forth in a small wire like formation. Doesn't look like much, but once it pierces through your hart and strts ripping it to shreads you might think different.
- Security dust. Spread this in the area you wish to secure and any biocreatrue that comes in contact sets off the alarm.
- Time delayed viruses. Just drop these in the local transit system and 5 to 100 days later the virus is released.
- "Acid" vats. The rip whatever is thrown into them into their component parts and put them the seperate storage tanks.
Nano defences:
- Micro EMPs that knock out all nanites in an area. Seriously how much shielding could they have. Could have them small enough that they don't even affect computers in the area.
Using nanites to build a large structure (i.e. building). Think of the processing power needed to coordinate all those nanites. Might still be cheeper to have nanites build the component pieces at a factory (possibly portable) and still have to have people/larger robots assemble. Or construction companies would just a mainframes they tote to each and every site.
If you have 100,000 nanites every cubic foot, you still have to power them somehow. I'm guessing one of the easiest ways to avoid a nanite trap would just be to moniter for power emitions.
Lets not forget clean up of dead nanites.
- Drop several tons of nanites on an unihabitated planat with the order to break down a specific amount of rock (making soil).
- Vats of nanites used to construct items. I.e. computer parts, walls for a prefab home.
- Need a new network connection in room 345. Just send out a string of our new nano wire. No fuss, no mess.
- Could use nanites to clean up the water supply.
more "game" friendly ideas:
- Micro fiber wire bomb. Thorw this little bomb out and thousands of nanites spue forth in a small wire like formation. Doesn't look like much, but once it pierces through your hart and strts ripping it to shreads you might think different.
- Security dust. Spread this in the area you wish to secure and any biocreatrue that comes in contact sets off the alarm.
- Time delayed viruses. Just drop these in the local transit system and 5 to 100 days later the virus is released.
- "Acid" vats. The rip whatever is thrown into them into their component parts and put them the seperate storage tanks.
Nano defences:
- Micro EMPs that knock out all nanites in an area. Seriously how much shielding could they have. Could have them small enough that they don't even affect computers in the area.
if anyone had read my post they would have understood that nano-machines are self replicating, hence cost efficent.
imagine making one nano-machine and saying "Go!"
imagine making one nano-machine and saying "Go!"
Current technology has already produced modular robots that can self assemble in different shapes using base construction blocks... the concept is very similar highly tecnological self assmbly lego pieces. Those robots can take many shapes, can move as a quadruped, can roll as a ball. They can even reproduce as they separate into two robots that have all the capacities of the original parent but half of the modules each.
Now, talking of nanotech, if each block could be reduced to just mere milimeters (current blocks are about 10 cm /side) so each one may hols nano components (hey a full computer would be required on each block! plus servos). Then they could assemble into any shape.
So, this game could use creatures that may morph into other shapes once the info is downloaded into their cores from a master 'server'. It would also create ideas as the mini-disrupter, something like 'The Matrix' EMP but at small scale.
Nanite filtered masks and air filters would also be common as any terrorist would send some nanites to destroy your body.
Luck!
Guimo
Now, talking of nanotech, if each block could be reduced to just mere milimeters (current blocks are about 10 cm /side) so each one may hols nano components (hey a full computer would be required on each block! plus servos). Then they could assemble into any shape.
So, this game could use creatures that may morph into other shapes once the info is downloaded into their cores from a master 'server'. It would also create ideas as the mini-disrupter, something like 'The Matrix' EMP but at small scale.
Nanite filtered masks and air filters would also be common as any terrorist would send some nanites to destroy your body.
Luck!
Guimo
Quote:Original post by Kars
- Security dust. Spread this in the area you wish to secure and any biocreatrue that comes in contact sets off the alarm.
I can imagine this being done so that you are highlighted in by a cloud of glowing nanites like this real life bioluminescent bay.
http://www.golden-heron.com/biobay.html
Quote: From http://www.stjohnbeachguide.com/Vieques_HTML/Bioluminescent_Bay.htm
And everything and I mean everything is glowing and sparkling in electric greenish and bluish white light. The hulls of the kayaks and the paddles are on fire, and even the water dripping off the paddles stirs up the bioluminescence and little drops of light fall through the air like sparklers on the Fourth of July.
Surreal … totally.
And the fish are leaving twisting psychedelic jet streams behind them as they shoot away from the intruders into their territory. And some of the fish are pretty big. Even some sting rays. And they make a big light. What a trip
I see the little nanites doing just about anything concurrent with the level of technology the society you've designed has attained. The challenge I see with it is that whatever nano you use, it's in how you use it that will have the effect on gameplay, in terms of the player's perception.
You'd end up ultimately with death nano, defense nano, offense nana, love nano, just about every attribute you could attach to gameplay already you could characterize the nano as, and then it would just become some sort of feature of the game, albeit a really cool one, like spy nano, brainwash nano, stealth nano and the oldie but goodie, cookie and pie nano.
Another aspect of this would be a huge perceptual challenge in terms of graphics. Nano cannot be seen with the human eye. Thus, you'd have to have some sort of "nanocam" to be able to bring the effects of nano to the eye of the player as a function of visible interprative active content. Ways to avoid this would be to either make the entire world, or just the level you were in at the time of use scale down to nano size so that the nano could again me visible and interprable. Or, as an alternative you could switch back and forth between challenges on the human scale or the nano scale, depending on what derived benefit of gameplay you wanted the player to experience.
Adventuredesign
You'd end up ultimately with death nano, defense nano, offense nana, love nano, just about every attribute you could attach to gameplay already you could characterize the nano as, and then it would just become some sort of feature of the game, albeit a really cool one, like spy nano, brainwash nano, stealth nano and the oldie but goodie, cookie and pie nano.
Another aspect of this would be a huge perceptual challenge in terms of graphics. Nano cannot be seen with the human eye. Thus, you'd have to have some sort of "nanocam" to be able to bring the effects of nano to the eye of the player as a function of visible interprative active content. Ways to avoid this would be to either make the entire world, or just the level you were in at the time of use scale down to nano size so that the nano could again me visible and interprable. Or, as an alternative you could switch back and forth between challenges on the human scale or the nano scale, depending on what derived benefit of gameplay you wanted the player to experience.
Adventuredesign
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