Quote:Original post by whitin

Quote:Original post by Ikana
I don't know how old you are, or any other circumstances about your situation, but you say that you are getting discouraged, and so I can share my own experiences, hoping that they will help you.

I started programming when I was about 12. My first language was qbasic. After a couple of months of that, I decided to jump right into C++. It really wasn't an informed decision, and I really didn't understand that it would be hard. The only resource I had to learn from was one of those "Learn C++ in 21 days" books. I quickly got discouraged, believing that I was too stupid to be a programmer, and quit programming for years. What I did not understand was that programming is hard. It takes years to become good at. It takes patience, hard work, and perseverence. If you are interested in being a programmer, don't make the mistake of quitting just because it's hard. Quit because you don't enjoy it, or you aren't interested in programming, but not because it's hard. I found out years after I quit that I *do* want to be a programmer after all. I cringe every time I think about how talented I would be if I had just persevered. Don't make that mistake.

Sorry, you seemed to just look at the word discouraged and programming. I mean that I am getting discourage in learning C++ instead of C#. Mainly because I am only 15, just going into 10th, and C++ may not be the standard for game programming by the time I get out of highschool. I was wondering if I should just learn C# now or C++.

Whether C++ will be the most commonly used when you're out of highschool or not is really quite irrelevant. The reason is that the job of a programmer is not to excell in the "industry standard" language, but to be able to adapt quickly and efficiently to new languages.

Remember, you're not a "C++ programmer", but a "programmer".

And besides, it's unlikely you'll be getting a programming job right out of highschool. Chances are you'll have to get a degree in computer science or an equivalent. So you've probably got about seven years to go until you can start working. And in seven years so many things will have changed it's best not to worry about it at all, and just learn what you can.

<edit>
To stay on topic, I recommend C++ over C# for several reasons, none of which are speed. First, it's multi-paradigm and doesn't force OOP, which can be mind-bending to beginners.

Second, it exposes the programmer to things such as memory management, which you're protected from in garbage-collected languages like C#. This is good because you have no guarantee you'll be working with a garbage collected language when you get a real job. In the case you aren't, and you never learned how to cope with memory problems, your pretty much out of luck.

Third, there's a lot of good third-party game development libraries for beginners out there already for C++, most notably ClanLib and SDL.
</edit>

Undoubtely, C++

Best performance, but hard to control and learn. Anyways, C++ is standard, while C# is M$ only...

Quote:Original post by Spoonbender
Personally I'd say C is a waste of time. It teaches you nothing you wouldn't also learn with C++, while at the same time hindering you because it lacks some very convenient features. It's no easier to learn than C++, but a lot less useful. ;)

But I still think the only possible answer is "It doesn't make the least difference, no matter what people tell you".

What you're learning is programming, not C++ or C# in particular.
Once you know programming, learning either of those languages is a piece of cake. (The same goes for C, if you feel like learning that. But unlike C++ or C#, I don't really see any reason why C would be a good idea)

Well its those "convenient features" that hinder you from learning how to program. Starting out with C teaches you more about the workings of the computer, because it lacks allot of the higher level stuff in C++. Understanding properly how the computer works is, in my opinion, very important in understanding programming in a broader sense. Of course C is less useful and less productive than C++, but the goal of learning C is to learn. I'd even go as far as to say learning assembler first(as I did) is even more helpful in understanding the workings of the computer. If you learn Assembler, C, C++ then Java or C# you can see the progression form low-level to high-level. Having a more complete understanding such as this comes in handy when your high-level language isn’t doing what you want it to, you’ll have a better grip on what is going on under the surface and can come to a solution quicker.

Quote:Original post by Grain
Well its those "convenient features" that hinder you from learning how to program. Starting out with C teaches you more about the workings of the computer, because it lacks allot of the higher level stuff in C++.

No idea what you've been smoking... but can I have some? Could you please explain these features in C++ that hinder learning or 'learning more about the workings of the computer'?

I mean quite honestly if you want to know about the detailed workings of the computer you should be using ASM and not a high level language like C right?

Quote:Original post by Grain

Quote:Original post by Spoonbender
Personally I'd say C is a waste of time. It teaches you nothing you wouldn't also learn with C++, while at the same time hindering you because it lacks some very convenient features. It's no easier to learn than C++, but a lot less useful. ;)

But I still think the only possible answer is "It doesn't make the least difference, no matter what people tell you".

What you're learning is programming, not C++ or C# in particular.
Once you know programming, learning either of those languages is a piece of cake. (The same goes for C, if you feel like learning that. But unlike C++ or C#, I don't really see any reason why C would be a good idea)

Well its those "convenient features" that hinder you from learning how to program. Starting out with C teaches you more about the workings of the computer, because it lacks allot of the higher level stuff in C++. Understanding properly how the computer works is, in my opinion, very important in understanding programming in a broader sense. Of course C is less useful and less productive than C++, but the goal of learning C is to learn. I'd even go as far as to say learning assembler first(as I did) is even more helpful in understanding the workings of the computer. If you learn Assembler, C, C++ then Java or C# you can see the progression form low-level to high-level. Having a more complete understanding such as this comes in handy when your high-level language isn’t doing what you want it to, you’ll have a better grip on what is going on under the surface and can come to a solution quicker.

Exactly...