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CJM

Anyone still use 2D?

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I'm really curious about this, Is anyone still using 2D, particularly (I know I'm gonna regret this phrasing) 'nice' 2D. I mean, doing something technologically that you don't get in your run of the mill 2D game. Sure, there's a ton of unexplored great gameplay, but about the only 'new' (engine) stuff that I can get my hands on is 2D soft shadowing by OrangyTang. I know that many people think that the whole 2D movement is over and tell others to move to 3D, but I just wanted to see if anyone's still doing anything cool with 2D. CJM

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You know, all I hear about are people who steer clear of 2d games purely because they're not 3d - ie, not "new". But I'm actually one of those people who tend to steer clear of 3d games unless the gameplay is really something unique.

I'm going to get shunned for this, but from my point of view, if it's 3d, chances are, you've played it before.

I have nothing against 3d, but why did the industry have to use it to turn its back on innovation just because the kids were eating it up? With any luck they'll suck the concept dry (not likely), and we can all finally go back and pick up from where we left off before the craze.

But yes! I love 2d games - keep them coming =)

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I love working in 2D as the gameplay and graphics are easy to figure out. As for selling 2D games, you may have some troubles if the game is not targeting the mobile market. But yes, there are still millions of people out there developing 2D games. In fact, there are numerous engines tailers to their development (ex Torque 2D).

Quote:
Original post by Andrew Russell
Stick Soldier Goodness
Looking good Andrew, I will help out on something someday. Maybe level design, we'll see.

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We're working on a pure software 2D graphic library, capable of extremely fast hi-color alpha blending in various modes, VQ compressed sprites, a multitude of image format loaders, font support... Loads of goodies. Nothing as fancy as Fleshwound, I dare say that's impossible at interactive framerates in pure software today. But it will show that software rendering can still do cool stuff in a 2D game.

So, to answer your question, yeah there are still 2D nerds out there. You might want to check the link in my sig too, for even more of us ;)

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i still do, with this engine (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pptactical), i find it very hard to unglue from the old 2d habits. i'm not looking for cute 2d, i'm trying to create an AI playground since it's just an engine an not a game.

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There is still a lot that can be done with 2D, and in fact I think the interruption caused by 3D has pushed most people (including programmers) back in what they think 2D should be able to do and should look like. While simple things like adding alpha blending are certainly all the rage, I have yet to see more then a handful of 2D games that even meet the bar set in 1995 by Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (even the GBA port [Mario Advance 3] can't match all of the effects created by the Super FX-2 chip that was used on the SNES cartridge version). Simply put Yoshi's Island still represents the next step in 2D graphics, it's just that almost no one has bothered to follow (off the top of my head I can only think of Gish, an indie game that won the Innovation in Game Design award at the 2005 IGF).

What seperates these games from other 2D games is that they aren't just the same sprite mechanics, but with more colors or transparency. Even Stick Soldiers 3 is not much more then higher quality sprites doing exactly what could be done on the NES in 1983. What sets Yoshi's Island/Gish apart is that they treat sprites and the environment as more then just bounded box areas (a bunch of very rigid squares), making something that looks and feels far more organic and natural. The environment isn't a collection of straight lines, but of curves. The characters are not flat drawings superimposed aligned to a grid, but flexible objects that turn and even deform (for example when Yoshi jumps on a high jump ball, the ball compresses and deforms under him, like a real object). Physics play a big role in making the 2D world better (Gish is centered around physics for gameplay). Can you imagine if 3D shooters still used the non-existent physics of Doom 1? Instead of a rigid world you have bridges made from balanced beams that tilt as the play walks on them. Instead of being static, the environment reacts to the players presence. Enemies realistically move, instead of simply being drones that walk on air.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by CJM
I'm really curious about this,

Is anyone still using 2D, particularly (I know I'm gonna regret this phrasing) 'nice' 2D. I mean, doing something technologically that you don't get in your run of the mill 2D game. Sure, there's a ton of unexplored great gameplay, but about the only 'new' (engine) stuff that I can get my hands on is 2D soft shadowing by OrangyTang.

I know that many people think that the whole 2D movement is over and tell others to move to 3D, but I just wanted to see if anyone's still doing anything cool with 2D.

CJM



With all the pocket computers and celphones with their low-res graphics and no 3D acceleration(throwback tech to game styles 10+ years ago), 2D will now be around for a longer time.

Actually, good looking 3D takes a reasonable polycount and some games were just as good or better looking using sprite graphics, so even after 3D accelerators become more common on the portables, the 2D will still be viable for yet longer.



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The reason why I like making a 2d game is that even with a low-end computer I get incredible performance. So I can pack detailed sprite animations in the game and still get a 33 fps in full 32 bit color on my 1 ghz laptop (!). So why not, 2D can exist besides the newest 3D games. As long as the game is fresh and original, and well made.

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Anatomy of a 2D Sidescroller gave some good reasons on why 2d is a perfectly viable platform, vs 3d.

EDIT: Myself, I'm not doing anything technologically complex with my engine/game that-will-be but I think there's still plenty of room for refinement gameplay-wise for 2d games. In my opinion there's plenty of great ideas that were pioneered in 3d games that could be applied very well to a 2d format.

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I think 2D will be around for a while, at least in indie circles. Its easier to get 2D projects started than 3D and you can get good looking results much faster. Also, as someone said, 2D game can be made to run on extremely low end machines where as a 3D game might not be so friendly to a slower computer.

However, I think until someone does something really amazing that catches the eyes of the gaming world, 3D games will still get more attention from gamers and developers alike. I personally enjoy screwing around with SDL for a week and having a cool little game running by the end instead of spending a month to get a playable 3D game running. I know I am generalizing skill levels, but I dont think anyone can argue successfully that 3D games can be prototyped from scratch faster than 2D ones.

Anyways, I still love making games in 2D and I will always come back to it when I get tired of coding 3D. My Current Project is a 2D game heres a screenie and a link to the current beta version.

Angels 20 Beta


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For my current game I'm tinkering with a frantic 2d scrolly shooter. I'm planning on taking a different slant and sticking to 'low' resolution like 640x480 - with a semi-recent graphics card this means I can go completely overboard with the blending / distortion / blur effects and make something really abstract and trippy.

Other good 'new style' 2d games are mono and duo at http://www.binaryzoo.com/home/index.htm

And don't forget that creating graphics for 2d games is much easier - no need to have complicated model exporters etc, just grab your pixels from a file and go.

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The folks over at GarageGames seem to think 2D still has legs. Torque2D is still in the "early adopter" phase (beta) but is producing some nice demos.

http://www.garagegames.com/mg/projects/t2d/

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PopCap, of Bejeweled-fame, has released its framework, mostly used to produce 2d(ish) games. That might be intereseting for people here. See this topic for more info PopCap framework available.. some tools and VC++ source

The The independent gaming charts also holds lots of 2d games.

I recently re-discovered a very cool 2d game, Tetris Attack (aka Panel de Pon) for SNES, a unique 2d puzzle game in tradition of tetris and puyo puyo.
Quote:
Original post by Wavarian
I'm going to get shunned for this, but from my point of view, if it's 3d, chances are, you've played it before.

I agree, but there are exceptions. Good examples of 3D used to improve gameplay, i think, are Roll Away (aka Kula World, 1998) for Playstation, and maybe also Super Monkey Ball

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I'm a die hard 2D finatic. Still play 2D games, and I must say that 2D is here to stay. It will never leave. It's kinda like asking if movies without CG will go away. Of course they won't, because you can make good movies with content without using good CG. I know it might seem weird when you consider it from a gaming point of view, but I'm positive that there will be a day when technology is not the most important thing in what sells a game.

Games will emerge as a true form of art and expression. Academics look at gaming and it's invaded most universities in one way or another. It's only a matter of time before we see games that are culturally influential (beyond pushing people to lobby for censorship).

My point is that once contentent is popularly recognized as the measure of game quality rather than the latest techonological feature, 2D will be just as big as 3D, and perhaps moreso considering 2D games are much easier to make.

If you're interested in getting into 2D gaming, and care to use the C# engine, head over to the FRB site (in my sig). A community built around the FRB 2.5D game engine, and 2D/2.5D gaming in general.

--Vic--

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if you're looking for proof check out Alien Hominid, Viewtiful Joe, Gish, and especially RagDoll KungFu (www.ragdollkungfu.com) This game has a 3D feel to it but a lot of it is 2D i think. The graphics are very detailed and the camera moves like a 3D camera but it seems mostly 2D.

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Quote:
Original post by silverphyre673
Yes! I have homeworld 2 on my compy, but although I like it a lot, I play star fox (SNES) just as often.


But aren't they both 3d games ???

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