Quote:Original post by Anonymous Poster Humm... I'd stick with 2D if I were you. Good 3D games require professionals, and even they don't make great 3D games all the time. Unless, of course, you are professionals.
To each his own I guess, I have no problems developing 3D games but if you ask me to do anything using a 2D API good luck.
Quote:Original post by Genjix so let me get this straight. you want to make a 3D browser applet and expect some decent fps? unless there is going to be really low-res models i wouldn't suspect so. sorry.
Your statement is utterly wrong.
Java AgentFX runs in a browser and runs very good at that. Is there a reason you made such an utterly wrong blanket statement?
could you offer me some sort of proof why? java applets are already considered very slow, add to that browser inter-operability adds another abstraction layer. and yet he wants to do 3D programming... already one of the most performance intensive tasks that can be run on your processor (short of finding a cure for cancer). i'm not even sure if java applets enable to make use of shaders.
Quote:Original post by Genjix could you offer me some sort of proof why? java applets are already considered very slow, add to that browser inter-operability adds another abstraction layer. and yet he wants to do 3D programming... already one of the most performance intensive tasks that can be run on your processor (short of finding a cure for cancer). i'm not even sure if java applets enable to make use of shaders.
The proof is in looking at AgentFX.. geez how much proof do you need other than seeing a java 3D engine running and being licensed?
Also I don't see why people enjoy making blanet statements like the one above about shaders.. instead of just guessing on what you think and spreading bad information why don't you take 30 seconds to notice that even AgentFX supports Cg shader programming.
Quote:Original post by Genjix could you offer me some sort of proof why? java applets are already considered very slow, add to that browser inter-operability adds another abstraction layer. and yet he wants to do 3D programming... already one of the most performance intensive tasks that can be run on your processor (short of finding a cure for cancer). i'm not even sure if java applets enable to make use of shaders.
The proof is in looking at AgentFX.. geez how much proof do you need other than seeing a java 3D engine running and being licensed?
Also I don't see why people enjoy making blanet statements like the one above about shaders.. instead of just guessing on what you think and spreading bad information why don't you take 30 seconds to notice that even AgentFX supports Cg shader programming.
Quote: i'm not even sure if java applets enable to make use of shaders.
I didn't say it didn't. But if someone asked you what the worst thing about java was, then what would it be?
3D apps need to make more use of the processor than other apps. That is the reason I made such an utterly wrong blanket statement.
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<del>actually thats kind of impressive, i never knew a java app was that capable. But still you must admit it is still rather grainy and java apps are incredibly slooooow compared to most other programs (limewire is a prime example).
And still java is not suitable for high end apps, due to the fact its byte interpreted.</del>
I actually detract my comments after seeing screenshots of java 3D engine. Though in my opinion i still think java is slow and wouldn't use it for a high end app.
As for running an applet through a browser... why is this not slow? doesn't it add an extra abstraction layer?
Java the language is not slow. I've written 3-D games in Java before, and seen demos at the Sun booth at GDC which prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Java can do graphics processing at interactive speeds. Now, I wouldn't rush off and try and write a software renderer in interpreted bytecode, but for JIT-compiled game logic and scene graph handling it's all right. An RPG, for instance, doesn't require fancy BSP-rendered portal-culled shadow-volume-extruded havok-physics-enabled geometry, it's just a handful of 3-D sprites, maybe with a few skinned meshes. This is not an example of a game that's CPU bound.
I've seen RuneScape - my gf was addicted to it for a while. Naturally you can get much higher quality art assets if you put the game on a CD/DVD than if you stream them over the net, but that's a design decision.
As for Java3D - the last time I used it was 5 years ago, and it was absolute crap. I'd be very surprised if they haven't improved it significantly though.
Tom
"E-mail is for geeks and pedophiles." -Cruel Intentions
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What are you talking about? A modern java runtime compiles the byte code into native code before exectution. And vertices / pixel shaders are all done on GPU anyway.
Java these days is quite capable of high end applications. Ok its not quite as fast as C/C++ but its pretty damm close- and getting faster with each new JRE.
I'm certainly no java fanatic and I plan to switch to C++ after my current project- but I the short time that I have been using java I have gained a lot of respect for the language.
