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Jiia

Old-School RPG walls

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Quote:

The camera will never zoom or rotate unless you control it to do so. There are automatic camera options, but they are options and off by default. I assume you're talking about the Mario 64 syndrome - when you walk through doorways and your view is jerked into another angle? My camera is no different than that of Diablo until you decide you want to change it.


Yes exactly that was what I refered to, but since you automatic camera is option everithing is fine.

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The Fallout games solved this for enemies by showing an outline around them: When you went into combat mode, all NPC's was outlined: Green = friendly, red = enemy, yellow = panicked enemy. If the NPC was behind something, the outline was drawn on top of it, so you always knew where they where. This worked very well, and could easily be applied to interactable objects too.

Fallout didn't do it for objects, instead they only made the wall transparent, but kept everything else opaque. Worked okay, but you still had problems with massiv objects such as lockers, and bookcases.

A possibility would be to allow the player to (ingame) toggle what can be seen: All opaque, wall transparent - objects opaque, all transparent.

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Quote:
Original post by visage
PS. Those are some nice looking screenies.

I'd like to second that ^^

As far as the original topic goes, if it's an attempt to mimic 'good old days' it might be possible to present the rooms with fixed, isometric perspective and front walls removed ... and all stuff which actually matter put on walls which *are* visible?

(think Knight Lore, Alien 8... okay, probably *too* old 'good days' >>;;

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I like both the transparent wall and outlining ideas. If you can do both fairly cheaply, I think you should allow the player to select either.

[off topic]
I think you should have a cursor. Surely you'll have a cursor somewhere, or will the entire interface be keyboard driven? If your character can perform actions that don't require him to be making contact with the target, you'll need some way of selecting the target. A cursor seems the easiest choice. I'd suggest using the cursor to select objects, and using right-button drag to move the camera.
[/off topic]

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I am assuming since he said he is making it mimic old school RPGs everything will be keyboard driven to copy an old Console RPG as much as possible where you don't have a cursor. Frankly, I would worry less about letting people see things and worry more about the layout of the maps. What I mean is, if something is crucial to the story, it should be in plain sight and not hiding behind 50 walls in a crack that only takes up 1 pixel on screen. So you should design the maps so that story crucial things are easily spotable regardless of the rotation of the camera. It shouldn't matter for none crucial things. If I miss a treasure chest containing a potion because I didn't properly search the room, no biggie. I should have looked more. But I should never have to look hard for crucial things.

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There will never be actions that require a mouse cursor. The mouse can be used in menus, but that is also optional. The gameplay is really suited for dual analog controllers (one for the camera). It still works well with WASD or arrow-key movement, but then you only have 2 fixed speeds (by holding shift to run). You can actually even move around with the mouse - but like pushing the character with motion, not point and click. The character is controlled almost exactly like the newest Prince of Persia games.

As for having the camera in a fixed position, I'm not sure. Small places like this will be very rare. They're just houses. And even then, you're probably looking at the smallest house in my game. I could fix the camera in-doors only, but then you run into nefthy's complant when traveling inside or out, the camera shifts into it's fixed location.

Thanks again for the suggestions

edit: In case anyone is curious, here's the outside. Also heavily WIP, though:
Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

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Quote:
Original post by Jiia
I could fix the camera in-doors only, but then you run into nefthy's complant when traveling inside or out, the camera shifts into it's fixed location.

I wonder if the transition (if it was actually introduced) could be made easier on the player through some kind of fade-to-black scene switch when the character enters/leaves indoor areas, rather than through abrupt change. The player would then hopefully quickly come to associate the visual cue (fade in) with the switch of camera/movement mode ... on some subconscious level.

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Quote:
Original post by Jiia
There will never be actions that require a mouse cursor. The mouse can be used in menus, but that is also optional. The gameplay is really suited for dual analog controllers (one for the camera).

Most PC owners that I know don't have an analog controller, dual or otherwise. If it's going to work on a PC, it would seem to make a great deal of sense to be able to use the mouse for whatever you would use the camera stick. I'd certainly find it far more convenient than having to use the keyboard to control the camera.
Quote:

As for having the camera in a fixed position, I'm not sure. Small places like this will be very rare. They're just houses. And even then, you're probably looking at the smallest house in my game. I could fix the camera in-doors only, but then you run into nefthy's complant when traveling inside or out, the camera shifts into it's fixed location.

If the shift is gradual, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I think tolaris's fade-to-black idea is very old-school.

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It's an interesting idea. If I decided on it, I could model inside areas to conform to the camera's static rotation.

Quote:
Original post by Nathan Baum
Most PC owners that I know don't have an analog controller, dual or otherwise. If it's going to work on a PC, it would seem to make a great deal of sense to be able to use the mouse for whatever you would use the camera stick. I'd certainly find it far more convenient than having to use the keyboard to control the camera.

Like I said, using the mouse is not a problem. There's no restriction to what controls you can use. Everything is completely customizable. You can use Shift + WASD to control the camera if you wanted. You can use the analog + L1 + L2 controls of a controller with your left hand while using the mouse and it's buttons with your right hand and still use the keyboard for special commands (BTW, There's no better way to play a FPS). It's also possible to assign a controller button to act like a shift button to allow the same analog stick you use to move to also rotate and zoom the camera. The mouse is obviously suited to camera rotation when not using a controller, but since my camera normally only needs to rotate on one axis and zoom, it's very friendly with keyboard keys as well.

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