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gunning

[4e4] Nudity, Violence and Profanity

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gunning    749
To the judges (and others who feel like replying)- What are your feelings about including nudity, violence and profanity in games? I ask this because I want to know if I should include modified textures and sounds removing these items as an option for those who may be offended. For a quick explanation, I would like to include nudity in my game not in a pornographic sense, but in the context of the game. For example, I would prefer to have naked zombies, because after all, why would a brainless zombie wear clothes? Eventually the clothes would fall off if they were left there when the person died. And I highly doubt the zombie wears clothing to impress other zombies, i.e., "Let's go get some dinner and maybe afterward a little necrophilia." I somehow doubt this, and feel the stereotypical clothing-wearing zombie was only created to satisfy the movie industry and keep such zombie movies from getting a nc17 rating. My zombies would be both male and female, from all stages of life, to make the game most realistic. As for violence and profanity, violence would typically be blood splatters and profanity may be included in the brainless zombie moans.

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Promit    13246
Remember that your game's audience is not restricted. If a 6 year old girl decides to play, she's entirely free to.

It should probably be a game that would earn a T (teen) rating, at most.

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Mushu    1396
You know - female zombie pr0n is something that industry has yet to explore...

Personally I'd say stick with Hollywood and at least give them a small loincloth (or other article) stretched to cover their exremely large busts.

Alternatively, you could have their long hair cover their tops, and have them wear tattered clothing/whatever. I still stand that Female Ninjas > *

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gunning    749
Good point Promit.

I will definitely include a warning at the start of the game informing the user of the possibility that they may be offended or emotionally disturbed from the content of the game, and allowing the user the option to quit at that point and no further. That way, a younger audience would at least be aware of the type of game.

If the game I envision in my head actually pulls through, I don't think it would earn a T rating. More likely, M. But then again, this all assumes that my game pulls through in the end. The game I picture in my head could probably be compared, graphically, to a 2D version of Doom3. See what I mean?

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gunning    749
Mushu,

Heh thanks for the laugh.

I want this game to be realistic. The idea of hair covering the breasts is a possibility, but that does not work for the typical male. Remember, a dead person, either male or female, is doubtful to be attractive. A female's breasts would probably have become loose and discolored, and the same goes for a male's genitals. Not exactly porn [smile].

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superpig    1825
I refer you to rule 12.

If you're using these things maturely - by the sounds of it, you would be (i.e. the nudity is intended for realism purposes, not because you want to make sexy zombies) - then you're OK.

Making it optional may score you points, but implementing just either one shouldn't cost you anything provided it's within the rules and beneficial to the game as a whole.

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gunning    749
Thanks superpig. Since [I think] you are one of the judges, I am glad to have your support. I am really considering offering a sifted down version of the game. Bonus points, hmm...

And it is definitely a mature venture for me, one that I hope my friends and family won't completely freak out about when they see me working on the content. Maybe I won't show my family until the end, because knowing them, it would probably turn out something like, "Ahhh. We're taking you to church more often!"

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DakeDesu    100
I am just curious about the stretches of cartoonish nudity. For example in the hit SNES game Pocky and Rocky 2, if you take a certain ammount of hits, you start running around in your underwear.

Now underwear isn't that bad, but I have a certain pirate who will have a similar effect (maybe), only there will be no underwear. However, it is cartoonish in nature, and no naughty bits show (If you check my projects thread, you will see it... remember it is a robot pirate).

I would guess it would be considered an "E" game (Pocky and Rocky II's rating IIRC)--do we need to put a warning of "cartoonish nudity"?

Also do we have something in place to mirror the ESRB system, for reference on distrobution of the games?

I guess my main point would be--is there someway to communicate to the people "purchasing" the games (to keep with the publisher theme in the rules) what the game entails?

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Boder    938
If we're not talking about sexual intercourse or related sexual content, then nudity should be a non-issue.

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Mushu    1396
Quote:
Original post by Boder
If we're not talking about sexual intercourse or related sexual content, then nudity should be a non-issue.

Us Americans are really insane about "omfg boobies!" and such. Its really pathetic, but we have to protect the middleschool-age children who are already having sex in our society from seeing nude bodies.

Please ignore the above opinion. I can't believe I wrote that.

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DakeDesu    100
Quote:
Original post by Mushu
Quote:
Original post by Boder
If we're not talking about sexual intercourse or related sexual content, then nudity should be a non-issue.

Us Americans are really insane about "omfg boobies!" and such. Its really pathetic, but we have to protect the middleschool-age children who are already having sex in our society from seeing nude bodies.

Please ignore the above opinion. I can't believe I wrote that.


Don't worry, I've observed it both on the east side of the Pacific _and_ the west side of the Atlantic. It is normally the reason Anime/Manga is americanised, and American versions of BBC programs suck.

However, I will not appologise for bringing up the contriversal conversation.

Generally, GameDev.net as a publisher, has to cover their own hind end. This means, that in the hypothetical situation that a parent finds the child playing a game with say, a naked zombie. At first the parent might be shocked--not really caring that anybody who gets turned on by zombie boobs. The parent may never recover from the shock. This will cause problems for GameDev.net. We have a few options to prevent that:
1) Not allowing any games that might potencially be taken the wrong way. I would personally be saddened if this is the route GameDev.net were to take as publishers.
2) A single image put next to the game "Parental Advisory Explicit Gameplay" image next to the entry. This is the second easiest method.
3) Have the publisher make a rating system based on content--sort of like what the music industry was going to go for before the artists stood up for one another. This will be the hardest one, as it would require anticipating what will appear in games--not a fun task.
4) Have the developers come up with an agreeable system based on the Movie or Television rating systems. Then once us developers come up with it a system. GameDev.net can elect a board of game developers and publishers (which would only consist of GameDev.net) to review games and rate them. With the ratings would be explainations of what gave it that rating.

...

...

...

/me reads her post.

DAMN YOU GAMEDEV.NET! You could have potencially made your own games industry in the contest forums.

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xCronus    100
Easy solution to all of this.......

Make alternative graphics/models, as this will not take that much more time because you already have the base model to work off of.

Then, in-game by default, the option to use the censored graphics is already turned on. You can include an option, accompanied by a warning tag, that this option will enable mature content.

Just make sure that people are aware of this option, so it should be placed in a noticable spot....i.e. readme......installation time....or in a conspicuous spot in the game's options.

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gunning    749
Thanks guys for your helpful responses.

xChronos, I like your idea and will probably end up using it. Thanks again.

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xCronus    100
No problem...

We'll probably use that....although taking some of this stuff out would really take away from some of the gameplay. (dialog wise...)

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d000hg    1199
For a high-view RTS game, there's obviously violence, does that count if human characters are involved like in C&C? I thought it would be nice to have blood puff out when a person gets shot; when the person is tiny on screen would that be an issue? I have no knowledge of any game rating systems other than the UK 'PG,12,15,18'.

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gunning    749
I always thought a creative idea to the blood problem is to turn the blood green. Maybe that could be an option for the game.

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coorrae    115
Why is blood bad, today I just turned on primetime network TV and saw a dead guy with blood all over him.


Now for profanity

In the dialog for my RPG, can I use the F word a few times? What if the guy just says "feck" our something?
And why is that every time I see F, you see K?

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superpig    1825
You can use 'fuck' if you want. Just be wary of how you use it - be sure that the game is better with it than without it. (Also be aware that creating your own slanguage can be kinda cool - look at the Thief games, for example).

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Trapper Zoid    1370
Quote:
Original post by superpig
You can use 'fuck' if you want. Just be wary of how you use it - be sure that the game is better with it than without it. (Also be aware that creating your own slanguage can be kinda cool - look at the Thief games, for example).


What, so 'taffer' isn't a real word? I use it all the time! As in 'Pike off, you taffer!' [grin]

But the 'feck' option is actually quite brilliant from all levels. I remember hearing about the reason why the writers of the Irish comedy series 'Father Ted' decided to go with 'feck' (instead of its close relative) on the commentry track of the DVD. By using 'feck' they could get the show aired in the family friendly comedy hour, but everyone including the kids knew what they meant. It's one of those really weird things with the censorship of the media that I don't quite understand.

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A_Borellus    296
I think the next gamedev.net contest theme should be "nudity, violence and profanity". I'm sure it would produce some interesting games and perhaps some free media coverage as well.

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matches81    474
skittleo: Your thought of green blood of it being creative alone tells me, you´re not from Germany ;) didn´t have to look where you´re from... I am from Germany, and I have to say: It is not creative to me... it´s just a hilarious try to get around a mature rating here in Germany... maybe I´m a bit too biased about this, because the german system makes it hard to get an uncensored version of some games, which can be quite annoying... Green blood doesn´t help anything in my opinion, it´s still obvious to everyone that it´s supposed to be red. ;)

And about the naked zombie stuff: If you´re talking about zombies like in Return of the living dead, which are dead a long time, been buried and have rotten quite far, sure, they´ll be naked... but zombies like in Romero´s trilogy should be wearing clothes, I guess, since they mostly died accidentally by getting torn to pieces or something else, and have died just recently. So their clothes could be ragged (or not), but I don´t see why they should be nude... except they died nude... at least my clothes don´t come off by themselves :) Hiphop zombies might be nude, or at least without trousers... they seem to be quite loose :)

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gunning    749
Quote:
Original post by matches81
skittleo: Your thought of green blood of it being creative alone tells me, you´re not from Germany ;) didn´t have to look where you´re from... I am from Germany, and I have to say: It is not creative to me... it´s just a hilarious try to get around a mature rating here in Germany... maybe I´m a bit too biased about this, because the german system makes it hard to get an uncensored version of some games, which can be quite annoying... Green blood doesn´t help anything in my opinion, it´s still obvious to everyone that it´s supposed to be red. ;)


Very interesting. I probably heard about that somewhere before, but here in the states we don't get that censorship so it seemed creative. What other choices have we?

Quote:
Original post by matches81
And about the naked zombie stuff: If you´re talking about zombies like in Return of the living dead, which are dead a long time, been buried and have rotten quite far, sure, they´ll be naked... but zombies like in Romero´s trilogy should be wearing clothes, I guess, since they mostly died accidentally by getting torn to pieces or something else, and have died just recently. So their clothes could be ragged (or not), but I don´t see why they should be nude... except they died nude... at least my clothes don´t come off by themselves :) Hiphop zombies might be nude, or at least without trousers... they seem to be quite loose :)


Heh yeah. The zombies are not truly zombies, but normal humans that have been injected with chemicals so they cannot die. Many of them go crazy or mentally shut down because not only do they never die, but they also never sleep. If you have gone 3 days without sleep, you know what sorts of hallucinations you see. [smile]

Therefore, the zombies have given up wearing clothes and the have fallen off in the 70 or so years since they were first injected with the chemicals. Yes, I still plan on having naked zombies. My girlfriend thought the idea was perverted, but clearly she thinks I am just looking for an excuse to look at porn. Sigh.

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kwijibo    169
Quote:
Original post by Trapper Zoid

But the 'feck' option is actually quite brilliant from all levels. I remember hearing about the reason why the writers of the Irish comedy series 'Father Ted' decided to go with 'feck' (instead of its close relative) on the commentry track of the DVD. By using 'feck' they could get the show aired in the family friendly comedy hour, but everyone including the kids knew what they meant. It's one of those really weird things with the censorship of the media that I don't quite understand.


"Feck" is an Irish slang term. Lots of people use it instead of "fuck" in the same way some people say "oh sugar" instead of "oh shit". It can be used to mean "to steal", among other things.

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