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Lucidquiet

[java] Has there been any Java games submitted to the Element contest?

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Lucidquiet    199
Has anyone here enterred anything using java as the platform for the element contest (aside from the LWJGL)? Actually I don't think that LWJGL qualifies? [edit: I was wrong -- see later posts]. In anycase, good luck. This is the first time I've paid attention. But just curious -- especially if flash games come up winners sometimes. Java I think (IMHO) can compete with flash...I think. L- [Edited by - Lucidquiet on July 5, 2005 4:42:53 PM]

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Son of Cain    480
I think Java can compete on equal terms with whatever language you may use to write a game; in this type of contest, the content is what matters the most, the usual constraints of a commercial project do not apply here. This alone increase the chances of a Java game being the winner :)

I didn't apply for the contest, unfortunately I don't have the spare time to gather members for a team and develop a decent game for the contest - but it would be very fun! I hope someone brings up a Java game or two, for the sake of the language :)

Son Of Cain

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Optus    422
Quote:

Java I think (IMHO) can compete with flash...I think.


Are you serious? ... You've been around these forums for a while now and still post this uninformed babble?

Yes, I will be submitting a 4E4 entry. Yes, it will be in Java. Yes, it uses LWJGL (I'm pretty sure it qualifies). It is an FPS, in full 3D with hardware shaders and everything. Yes, it runs fast. When have you seen something like this done in Flash?

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stormrunner    720
Quote:
Yes, I will be submitting a 4E4 entry.

Aye, same here.

Quote:
Yes, it will be in Java.

Indeed.

Quote:
Actually I don't think that LWJGL qualifies?

If you read the rules, you'll see that the use of third party libraries is encouraged. Ergo, LWJGL is completely legal.

Quote:
Java I think (IMHO) can compete with flash...I think.

...

Quote:
In anycase, good luck.

To you as well.

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Wrathnut    466
This might be trolling.. but it seems to me that you Optus don't think that java can compete with flash? Because I KNOW that java can hands down beat flash in most respects.

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
This might be trolling.. too.. but maybe you should get some reading and comprehension lessons Wrathnut. Optus was saying that the capabilities of Java surpass Flash by such a margin that to say they are on par with each other is insane.

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princec    312
Actually the Flash platform has got the Java platform beaten hands down in most areas when it comes to delivering online games. And that's not trolling. See if you can identify the strengths and weaknesses of both in a constructive discussion - might be interesting.

Cas :)

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Optus    422
cas I think it's impossible for you to troll

Anyway, I would agree yes Flash is owning Java right now in the online game department, the size of the shockwave player download is miniscule compared to the JRE, deploys seamlessly via activex control, and has a huge base of reputation in current times. If I earnestly was programming an online browser-based game, (even though I love Java) I would seriously consider flash for all these reasons.

However, I'm aiming for an offline-3D game, so Flash isn't really viable for me.

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Lucidquiet    199
Quote:
Original post by Optus
Quote:

Java I think (IMHO) can compete with flash...I think.


Are you serious? ... You've been around these forums for a while now and still post this uninformed babble?


Yes I'm truly uninformed about Flash -- and will likely remain uninformed about Flash -- I don't feel a need or a want to learn Flash. So yes IMHO Java can compete with Flash... I think (that is knowing little to nothing about Flash). Based on on-line distribution of Flash games, and Java games, it is a little lopsided in favor of Flash games. So can they truly compete? At a glance no, but from an insider's standpoint yes. In a way that's like trying to convince a MS-dependednt world that Linux is a better OS.

Besides all I wanted to do by starting this post is to see how represented Java was in this upcoming contest. (Also, I was mistaken when saying that I don't think LWJGL qualifies...I read most of the contest rules, and didn't see any hardware support listed, but I went back resently and found that there is graphic card hardware on the judgin machines, sorry).

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Jebediah    245
Me me me me...my game is in Java.



I really like java. I also dislike Flash because it seems to be built for non-programmers. Too many f**king buttons and shit. Hurts my brain trying to learn Flash.

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Son of Cain    480
Java can take you to a level Flash can't even dream of... no matter how much Action Script you can write, a high level language beats a script language. If Flash had an SDK like Maya has for MEL, it could be another story, but I think it has not (I'm not into flash, you can notice =).

However, there is always something to learn from other technologies... And Java really lacks a better scheme for deployment of online games. Perhaps the mime type for Java is not popular enough? Can Sun, or the developers, do something about it?

I believe that as soon as the quality of Java games improve (as it is slowly improving by now) the demand will also increase; the addicts will make Java popular, if they have a Java game to love and play ;)

Son Of Cain

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Wrathnut    466
I know it is stupid to respond to a person trying to flame behind an AP but here goes. ^_^ I will not trade insults with someone who is not brave enough to log in. I have programmed in both dev environments(for years) and I can honestly say that java wins out when you are trying to get to the nuts and bolts of creating a complex game. But as stated by several subsequent posters the download size if much smaller for a flash game. And in the online world that is what ultimately wins out, not whether a platform is more robust.

As for listing the strengths and weakness that is for another thread, if someone cares to start it.

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Lucidquiet    199
IIRC Flash does have an SDK, but its not free, and you have to "apply" for it, meaning they screen who they sell it to. I tried, because I was working on a vector modelling/player of my own at the time. It seemed reasonable to think that Flash would have some kind of SDK, like almost all other big software, at least VBA (for automation tricks). Maybe things have changed - that was almost 2 years ago.

As a side note I found a very early release of a SWF writer at sourceforge written written in C/C++. I haven't followed up at all as to if the project is still active, or if the release has become more stable. (worth another look? maybe).

L-

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Strife    374
Wow this thread has gone way off topic...

The reason Flash is dominant in relatively small online games has already been mentioned, though maybe not as explicitly as I will: Its simplicity.

Anyone can use Flash. You have to know how to program to use Java.

Flash is made for a very specific type of thing, whereas Java is much more generalized. Therefore, you can very rapidly make interactive content via Flash where it might take you considerably more time to make an equivalent project with Java. Of course, as the complexity increases, this tips the other way. That's just how things go.

All right, back on topic now, gentlemen!

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BobV    416
Quote:
Original post by Strife
Anyone can use Flash. You have to know how to program to use Java.


Not anyone can use Flash. I am a programmer and tried Flash; gave it a good honest effort. It's definitely for the artistically inclined. I could barely muster a deformed stick figure walking across the screen. As mentioned earlier, all the buttons give me a headache also.

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Son of Cain    480
I agree with BobV, but Strife means that is quite "easier" to learn Flash than Java. But that is off topic now, eh?

You guys who will submit to the Four Elements contest... is there a way to accompany the progress of your work? (maybe a project page at java.net =).

Let us cheer XDDD

Son Of Cain

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